Why Toyota is Better than GM and Ford

James P. Womack explains how Toyota beat GM and Ford. Unlike many, he does not cite aging factories, pension obligations, or unions as the cause. Instead, Toyota gained its advantage by following the lean business strategy he and others identified in the 1990s :

Why Toyota Won, by James P. Womack, Commentary, WSJ: ...Clearly MoTown needs a new approach and it's natural in the car industry to think that the secret must be a killer model -- a Toyota Prius hybrid or some other concept to replace the big pickups and SUVs that floated the American firms for 15 years. Actually, it's not a new car model that's needed. It's a new business model. Toyota is leading the charge against Detroit -- largely from inside the U.S. -- with a fundamentally different approach to business that my MIT research team in the 1990s labeled "lean" enterprise. Compared with these Toyota practices, GM and Ford's approach has five fatal weaknesses:

• GM and Ford can't design vehicles that Americans want to pay "Toyota money" for. And this is not a matter of bad bets on product concepts or dumb engineers. It's a matter of Toyota's better engineering system, using simple concepts like chief engineers with real responsibility for products, concurrent and simultaneous engineering practices, and sophisticated knowledge capture methods. The Prius is... the likely result of a development system that tries out many approaches to every problem, then gets the winning concept to the customer very quickly with low engineering cost, low manufacturing cost, and near perfect quality. (That's not to say that Toyota can't produce a dud ...but the likelihood of producing winners is higher ...)

• GM and Ford are clueless as to how to work with their suppliers. Sometimes they try to crush their bones -- which only works when the suppliers have any profits to squeeze, and few currently do. Then they embrace contentless cooperation that ... fails to produce lower costs, higher quality, or new and better technology. Toyota, by contrast, is getting brilliant results and lower prices from American suppliers like Delphi while also giving suppliers adequate profit margins. How? By relentlessly analyzing every step in their shared design and production process to take out the waste and put in the quality.

• GM and Ford have miasmic management cultures. These turn competent people into Dilberts. By contrast, Toyota does a brilliant job of making one person responsible for every key business process... A Dilbert-free environment naturally emerges, but not because everyone has received cultural training to spur teamwork. Rather, if ordinary people -- Dilberts even -- are put in a great business process they become great team players.

• GM and Ford cling to their wide range of brands: Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, Saab, GMC, and Hummer at GM; Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, Mazda, Jaguar, Volvo, Aston Martin, and Range Rover at Ford. And they still talk about brand revitalization as the way ahead. Yet the most successful car companies in the world -- Toyota and BMW -- have only two or three brands. And this is not an accident. Indeed, it's hard to see how any modern-day car maker can support more than three truly distinctive brands... A plethora of brands that can't pull their weight drains management energy and company coffers.

• GM and Ford still treat customers as strangers engaged in one-time transactions. Toyota's Lexus, by contrast, has created a new and better customer experience. Customers cheerfully pay more for the car and the service and then come back for more cars because they love the treatment. ...

But note: I haven't mentioned the creaky factories, vast pension obligations, and cranky unions that commentators ... seem obsessed with. In fact, Ford and GM's factories are now good enough to compete in terms of labor productivity and quality. They just can't support ... pension and healthcare benefits for retirees as the companies continue to shrink. Union and management both know this, yet ... their conversation has broken down. With zero confidence that management knows what it is doing, a union will try to get what it can now rather than look at the long term. In consequence, unless GM and Ford soon present a plausible path to a brighter future ... there may be no long term.

There is no mystery about the lean business model. All of the elements are operating in this country every day at Toyota and at many other American companies in a range of industries. What is mysterious is why GM and Ford can't embrace it. And what is dismaying is how many of their employees are likely to suffer if they don't. But finally, what is reassuring for the country is that if GM and Ford can't fix their problems, they will simply be replaced by new players in America, led by Toyota, who can.

Comments

[Dave Schuler]

I deal with Ford people on a daily basis and it's even worse than the picture painted in the article. The auto companies have continued to favor executives at the expense of blue collar workers (look at the actual salary reductions for top-tier managmentit's been pretty darned limited). They lost a lot of their really competent people years ago and those who left behind are pretty demoralized not to mention completely insular and NIH.

[Dave Schuler]

Oh, and one more thing: Ford and GM don't view retail car buyers as their customers. Their customers are auto dealers.

[Mnemosyne]

When my fiance was buying his first new car a couple of years ago, he had to decide between a Ford Focus that had been built in Mexico and a Toyota Corolla that had been built in California.

He decided that it was more important to buy from a foreign company that builds its cars in the United States using American auto workers than it was to buy from an American company that builds its cars "overseas" using foreign labor. And he's very, very happy with his Corolla.

[d]

I learned about quality management in the 90s and about lean production. I run my house that way now, and live happily in a 1300 sq ft home - never had the need to move up to a McMansion. I've applied a lot of the kanban and just in time production techniques. Yes, it means more trip to the grocery, but fresher vegetables and meats and a better quality of life.

There'a a lot Americans could learn from lean production - and a lot they could have learned from listening to Deming in the first place, like the Japanese did.

That said, it isn't all roses for the Japanese, either. Their treatment of labor unions was incredibly brutal, and a lot of the suppliers really do get squeezed pretty badly.

[ilsm]

I studied production management in the 60's and 70's. Lean is no different tham decent line balancing taught by US management schools since Fredrick W. Taylor.

The issue has been as always execution!

The Japanese stick to the knitting is all that they have over the US.

Huge executive compensation is symptom or cause?

[save_the_rustbelt]

Next generation Ford (III) gets job with the company amid cuts.

Whenever I see my independent mechanic he yells at me for not buying a Toyota or Honda.

[ilsm]

I owe a Chevy Prizm: aka Toyota Corrolla under Muzi label, and a Honda Accord.

I am a student of reliability and quality and I decided to go Japanese rather than keep the amateurs working in Detroit.

[dryfly]

I studied production management in the 60's and 70's. Lean is no different tham decent line balancing taught by US management schools since Fredrick W. Taylor.

The issue has been as always execution!

I studied mfg too but later - 80s & 90s - and am still taking a class or too though not right now. (I was originally trained as a chem engineer in the 70s - talk about the antithesis of 'lean').

Anyway I agree with your position in principle - that all the 'concepts' one learns in 'lean' have been known for a LONG time... same with 'innovations' like 'Six Sigma'... nothing really new there either.

My bitch with western 'traditional' management is that they looked at this material and still came up with a completely different & ineffective strategy of how to run a manufacturing companies LONG after the evidence was proving that strategy was now obsolete.

Now in fairness... the Big Three strategy of uninterrupted push driven 'flow' mass production was completely appropriate at one time - 40s & 50s especially when families were booming and they couldn't make the stuff as fast as they could sell it.

But by the 70s that had changed and it was pretty obvious to the Japanese who had always had both raw material supply constraints with uncertain end customer demand... that the appropriate mfg system solution for those two simultaneous conditions is a 'pull' signaled 'lean' production system. The quality systems & rapid set-up cellular mfg we often associate with 'lean' were the tactics developed to make the strategy 'actionable'.

These changes were not obvious to managers in the US and for many at GM, Ford, etc it unfortunately still isn't really 'obvious' to them... or doesn't appear that way from the decisions they continue to make (like offshoring to then import).

I believe this is because many of the upper mgmt types at these companies would really rather be bankers or Donald Trump apprentices... making deals... than overseeing the making of cars. I'm not sure they even really like cars anymore... While at Toyota they stick to the knitting as ilsm said... at least so far.

I have no doubt that if the operations mgmt, engineers & workforce at GM & Ford were really given the green light to fully implement a lean domestic production strategy that they could do it and give Toyota a very serious run for its money. But the mfg wonks don't call the shots... bean counters & marketing types do... and these folks don't get the basics of 'lean' let alone know enough about what is needed to successfully execute it. Hey but they do understand cup holders... we got lotsa those.

If anyone is interested in learning more google 'Womack' & 'lean manufacturing'... you'll see quite a list of goodies including references to his book 'The Machine That Changed the World'... it is the end product of the work they did at MIT (mentioned in his article)... http://www.lean.org is a pretty good reference also.

[dryfly]

Their treatment of labor unions was incredibly brutal, and a lot of the suppliers really do get squeezed pretty badly.

Here in the states they treat their suppliers a WHOLE LOT BETTER than the domestics treat their suppliers... companies I work for sell into both supply chains & would MUCH RATHER work for the Japanese and even the Koreans now... than Ford, GM or their spin-offs like Visteon & Delphi.

I have parts in a transplant and it isn't bad at all once you get past the 'cultural differences'.

Unions are another story.

[slink]

"Their treatment of labor unions
was incredibly brutal"

my question

wage worker wise
why care what country the boss comes from ????

unless you're a racist
so whats the bad rap here based on ???

what brutality towards what unions ???

hey the japaneseworkers
figured out how to unionize
these companies
back home

the beef should be
with our very own piss poor
pie card uaw bureau-hacks
that don't have a clue
how to organize
a hostile company anymore

bring back the CIO !!!!!!

[Emmanuel]

• GM and Ford have miasmic management cultures. These turn competent people into Dilberts.

I think Dilbert would feel insulted. Who's the HR manager wasting talent at GM and Ford anyway, Catbert?

[save_the_rustbelt]

When my Ford Taurus was towed into the dealer for the 8th time (the head kept blowing off) no one in the service department could figure our why I was livid.

I made some snotty remark about the thickness of my warranty file, and the service manager walked to his file cabinet and pulled out a file six inches thick.

"That's a warranty file" he said. I peaked at the label and it was a Crown Vic 2 years old.

The boys in Detroit just don't get it.

[Bruce Wilder]

General Motors was highly profitable for a great many years. The problems, which G.M., Ford and Chrysler had with quality were widely publicized in the 1960's, with customer dissatisfaction inspiring articles in Life magazine, no less. The labor contracts obtained by the UAW and the Steelworkers in the late 1960's pushed their wages way above their historic relation to the median manufacturing wage, undermining the American comparative advantage in international automobile trade. That the U.S. automakers were at a substantial cost disadvantage vis a vis the Japanese became readily apparent by 1978, when, even with the yen rising to high levels, the Japanese continued to gain U.S. market share. The sources of that disadvantage were being widely discussed from 1979 onward.

There's something almost pitiful about Womack. He seems to me to be saying that the problem is, the U.S. automakers do not have the right attitude and do not try hard enough, or haven't read his brilliant book, from 15 years ago. "clueless" "miasmic culture" Please give us all a break.

Yes, G.M. and Ford have quality problems -- they had quality problems, and those problems were widely recognized and identified, in 1967! and in 1978 and in 1992 and now. Somehow, "they just don't get it" is not a very satisfying analysis.

[paul]

GM and Ford are clueless as to how to work with their suppliers... Toyota, by contrast, is getting brilliant results and lower prices from American suppliers like Delphi while also giving suppliers adequate profit margins. How? By relentlessly analyzing every step in their shared design and production process to take out the waste and put in the quality.

As I understand it, Walmart manages to do something similar, though without the cooperation with suppliers. It manages the supply chain like Toyota, integrating information processing so that it can get just-in-time supplies, but rather than working with suppliers to analyze costs, it tells suppliers that prices (cost to Walmart) must decline at a certain rate, and leaves it to suppliers to figure out how to make that work for them.

This seems to work very well for Walmart, perhaps because the items that it purchases from its suppliers do not have to fit smoothly together in a complicated product.

Can US companies make a cooperative approach, a la Toyota, work well? From the same paragraph above, Then they embrace contentless cooperation that ... fails to produce lower costs, higher quality, or new and better technology. It appears that all they can make work is an uncooperative approach, and even then, only sporadically. Are the cultural differences between Japan and the US so great, that US firms are successful in working cooperatively only to fix prices?

[Bruce]

Wal-Mart manages to do what it does by market domination. It owns so much of the retail market, and more each year, that if you don't sell through them, you lose a lot of volume. However, look up what Wal-Mart's use of its vendors' products as "loss leaders" does for their profits (for instance the Gallon Vlasic Pickle Jar, or Huffy bicycles). You have to dominate a market to squeeze your suppliers like Wal-Mart, and it tends to be pretty hard on the suppliers (i.e. all of the supply jobs have to go overseas).

[Clem Kadiddlehopper]

"LEAN" is bullsh*t! To expect employees to contribute ideas to make the workplace more efficient without giving the employees proper compensation for those ideas is part of what is killing the American way. If you really expect employees to help you to make your business better, then you should give them a reasonable percentage of the savings, say 50% of the savings for the first three years. At our company a LEAN initiative has a chance (You are entered into a lottery) to possibly win a $50 gift certificate!

[DCX employee]

sdfsafdasfds

[Jared Jackson]

As a worker at Toyota, it's very depressing to hear the comments above. Does Toyota really "do a brilliant job of making one person responsible for every key business practice"? What kind of ridiculous b.s. is that? The truth is that at Toyota, you do what you are told without question or you will find yourself out the door faster than a snowball melts in hell. It's really not funny to read what people think about Toyota when they don't work there. Ask all the "Dilberts" that have been hurt by overwork and exhaustion due to overburdened processes and subsequently had their jobs terminated for no reason, except that they can't do their jobs anymore. Shame on everyone who thinks Toyota is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and that unions are the only reason the Big 3 are floundering.

[Debasis Goswami]

The breadth of comments above is really amazing. I have mixed fealings about Toyota quality though. I bought a 2005 Corolla and the dash board panel cover started falling off. Well, it was replaced under warranty coverage but I heard this is a common quality issue for Corolla. Next the fog light cover fell off without hitting anything.

I think some of their suppliers in the US have as bad quality products as anybody else.

From above post, I can only say that if somebody in a production line does not do what he/she is supposed to do (or asked to do), there is little future for that production shop. Giving decision making power to appropriate employees is a different thing.

BTW, I am a management student and I have seen Ford and GM became case study for failure against Honda or Toyota.

I used to drive Ford for many painful years. I now only own Honda and Toyota. They are made in America as opposed to GM and Ford!

[SutroStyle]

This is all bullshit.

GM is loosing because Toyota cars are better initially and more reliable in the long run.

Toyota cars are better, because Toyota hires the best engineers, while GM hires the best MBAs.

US MBA culture that started in the 70s is good fro stripping assets of the American industrial society (know-how, technology) and selling them to the Far East, but not good for domestic production.

That's it.

[vanna4me]

The big Three simply WONT produce quality engineered products. People may be ignorant but by no means stupid.
Its the little things people like.

[davekale]

Most of the comments above are untrue. We better wake up to the media hype we are being fed. Buick came in 3rd and Honda came in 9th in initial quality in 2003. They were all good in quality. Toyota had 2.3 problems per car over first 3 years and chevy had 2.7. Sounds like a good reason to leave our children no industry to work in. Four tenths of one problem across 3 years. Local dealer of Cadillac, Olds, GMC, Toyota leases 80% of what they move, so who owns those cars anyway? Americans can no longer afford to buy Cadillacs anymore, just lease them. Short sighted people who want to buy unamerican should have kids who can't find jobs as payback, but be spared their 4/10 of a problem after 3 years!! 85% of all dollars generated by Honda and Toyota sales flow back to Japan. They bring their own suppliers over here from Japan. They give very little new business to the truly american companies who were here before they came with their factory. I worked for an american car company trying to make money. Our competitor was building a new factory in the hills of W. Va. They were paying 10.50/hr with few benefits. They hired all new employees at minimal vacation. The avg worker who had to build my competing ignition part made 27.50/hr and had 5 weeks vacation accumulated. GM dictated the part price based on a match of the Mitsubishi price for it. Of course we lost money and there was no millions generated to go to a CEO.

[Henry S.]

I agree with you Dave Kale...it is all media hype. When Consumer Reports and other car critics look at a Toyota, they have preconceived notions that it is more reliable than anything in the world...so they keep repeating it. When the consumers have heard it enough times they start believing it and repeating it. Honestly, I think Consumer Reports and other critics are just plain anti-American all around.

My family and I have owned about 90% American vehicles...and I have never experienced this whole "American cars are unreliable" thing. I've heard Toyota owners who rejoice with stories that they drove a Toyota with more than 100,000 miles. I laugh that that is the metric for measuring Toyota reliability because my family was pretty poor until recently and we didn't buy cars with less than 100,000 miles. My girlfriend bought a Dodge Intrepid with 80,000 and reluctantly traded it in with 135,000 miles for another Dodge. It was a great car.

However, I know for a fact that everyone has a story for any brand of car car...some that ran well over 200,000 miles and others that broke at 20,000 miles...but like Dave Kale said, the differences in reliability are actually rather small....you have to look at the big pictures numbers to get a true idea of reliability...not listen to people's anecdotal stories.

One question I have is whether the reliability statistics take into account how people maintain and drive their cars. If most Ford F150's were hauling hay, equipment, and boats and most Toyota Tundra's were carrying groceries and babies, wouldn't we have have to take that into account?

[Chevyguy]

GM, Ford, and Chrysler are all better than Toyota and Honda. The are made better better parts and everything else if a Toyota gets in a crash at 5 mph the hood bends like paper. The looks are better the Prius is uglyer than anything i've seen. Honda lied about gas mileage on the hybrid Civic they said 50 mpg when Motor Trend and Automotive magizine only got 37 at the most.
If they had better styling better materials better engines and better styling in and out I would probly like them better.

[Chevyguy]

GM, Ford, and Chrysler are all better than Toyota and Honda. The are made better better parts and everything else if a Toyota gets in a crash at 5 mph the hood bends like paper. The looks are better the Prius is uglyer than anything i've seen. Honda lied about gas mileage on the hybrid Civic they said 50 mpg when Motor Trend and Automotive magizine only got 37 at the most.
If they had better styling better materials better engines and better styling in and out I would probly like them better.

[WTF]

Chevyguy,

What in hell are you talking about? GM, Ford, and Chrysler are absolutely not near the quality of Toyota (although I agree the prius is ugly). Look at a recent consumer reports, Toyota vehicles continuously have better reliability than the "big 3". I have owned Ford, GM, Chevy, and Toyota vehicles. I put 3 transmissions in my Dodge minivan in 45,000 miles before I junked it at 135,000 miles, 4 power steering units and 1 transmission in my '91 ford taurus before the transmission failed at 150,000 miles. My GM "buick" car was decent, until 160,000 miles when everything (but the engine and transmission) started breaking, and I have had absolutely no problems at all with my toyota intil the engine blew at 250,000 miles. Chatting with my friends locally as well as fleet managers, they have had similiar experience as myself and now buy Toyota if given the decision. Why? because they last longer and have fewer problems.

[alan p. shearman]

As a Team leader in St. Catharines, Ontario, where we assemble engines for the cadillac cts, corvette, siverado and Saab, some of the anti-chevy comments are laughable. Toyota had more recalls than any auto company last year. We still sell plenty of product, but we have a million people on the pension plan. Toyota and Honda have hardly anybody retired, lets see how they handle it when they get legacy costs. Consumers and other mags have become puppets for Japanese elitists.

[J.C. Howard]

I feel that americans are seeling out by buying Japanese cars. I own a Chevy and Ford each and have never had one problem with either vehicle. In 2005 I went shopping for a small economy car I went to Ford and test drove a focus and went to toyota to drive the corolla then to Honda to drive a civic, hands down the ford focus was the most comfortable and drove the best in my opinion so I got it instead. The interiors of the Japanese cars felt cheap and the seats were not padded well. Also I've noticed safety wise american cars are safer in a wreck. I probally will never own a Japanese car.

[interested bystander]

I do find it interesting to hear what appears to be very limited knowledge people talking about quality. Some referencing their experience with a 1991 vehicle. WAKeUP its not 1991 anymore . . the best vehicle five years ago is not as good as the worst vehicle today. Media hype in favour of Toyota is also amazing for the this brand, despite a recent quality issue on 3.5 million engines, a recall on 550,000 Tundra trucks for ball joints, etc., etc., the have had a lot of recalls and the media doesn't seem to want to talk about that. If it was a domestic they would scream it out, why I do not know. If you drive a domestic and compare it to a Toyota today you will find a more cost effective vehicle in the domestic brand with just as much safety and quality as the Toyota. The implication of a "dust to dust" manufacturing scenario in the North American market which is not evident at any imports manufacturing process, is also of substantial value to North Americans in general and if a person reads this and understands this point I believe a more balanced review of North American produced/manufactured vehicles would be forecoming. I know that I need a strong North American economy to feed my family and will therefore continue to focus my automotive buying attention to the domestic manufacturers who can assist me, namely Ford GM & Chrysler.

[Will]

I have worked around American companies all my life. I will never buy another American car. The UAW is a nightmare that movies could be made out of. Never will I buy another union made product.

[W. Miyahira]

Back in the 70's when my father started making a lot of money being a dentist he bought a Coup de Ville, bronze in color. I remember riding in it--it was huge, like a big ship (I was 8 at the time) and it was the best car I ever road in, so smooth it was like floating on air. There was an 8 track player which played a complimentary song selection by Cadillac. We would take long rides on Sundays me and my dad and mom and I would stare out the window for hours watching the world go buy and listening over and over to the songs on the Cadillac Selection 8 track cassette--all of them I loved, especially "Galveston" (I think) by Glen Campbell.

When I think of Cadillacs Coup de Ville, I think of mom and dad and those long trips on Sundays and the music that went with it. The people who made Cadillac when I was a kid were special because they, like me, were dreamers, visionaries who seemed to put elegance and luxury foremost. They are a part of my childhood
and for me a part of my life.

When I talked to my dad later on why he sold his Cadillac he told me because the @#$%@# thing kept breaking down and the service was expensive and lousy. He later bought only Mercedes and now owns only Lexus. As for me, I own an Xterra
but think I will sell it and by a hybrid.

Things have definitely changed, but one thing will always remain the same. Those days of Dad, Mom, and that big Cadillac de Ville with the Cadillac Selection of songs will never, ever be forgotten. Neither will the ride be. I still haven't rode a car that floated on air like that big, old Coup de Ville.

[Chris]

One thing that is clear to me, it really doesn't matter how good an American car is right now, people just aren't buying (i.e. paying premium prices). Part of the problem is all the bad press of late. But, the larger problem is that Toyota and Honda have somehow been successful at marketing their cars to the 'intelligent' buyer (wink wink). Everyone I talk to believes this. As such, I could feel like a stooge if I buy an American car vs. Japanese. I have two little kids, if I buy a Caravan over an Odyssey, I'm somehow an idiot? How did this happen? American cars do well by many quality/performance/looks/functionality measures. But, somehow American companies lost the perception that their cars are the intelligent choice.

[MEDIA WINS THE WAR]

You can't find much negative information about HONDA on the internet. In fact, I bet this posting gets deleted if I use the words "HONDA SUCKS". It will be found and deleted to protect their image. In fact, peoples opinions no longer matter, but it's always been like this... MONEY TALKS!

Now, sadly, GM and FORD are doing too little too late to fix this.

I want to buy a GM or FORD but they didn't offer the product I wanted.

I would never buy a HONDA after researching their slave worker policies and their efforts to make their cars FASTER and more dangerous. I don't know why HONDA is so proud to say their cars are the fastest on the roads?!? How's is that making our streets safer?
They market to teenagers that want respect on the road.
I'm sorry kids, but respect is earned not bought.
You can't demand respect, it comes with age, it's like being cool, that's for young people.

Now shut up and drive away with your loud muffler because you wanted 2 more HP from the crap box you're driving!

[Eisemann]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1FaJ9P2vXo

According to this Ford is making better cars than Toyota.

I think the new toyota trucks failed both frame tests and crash tests compaired to Ford.

Ford has my vote. My old Toyota is having issues my friends ford explorer is not.

[jay]

that's the problem! they are trying to keep up with the japanese by putting 15 computers in a car and a 10,000 ft of wires. if chevy reproduced the 1972 pickup or the 70's monte carlo, I would purchase one of each tomorrow morn. the truth is, the japanese cars are shit, american companies are not american cars and they are shit too.

[greg]

Ford passed Toyota in 2007

JD POWER ratings;
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33109

Good for FORD

Now you can have a Quality car as well as one that does not fail in crases. The problem with Toyota the fronts are so cheap one hit and your in the body shop for weeks.

Thats not what I call quality.

Greg

[Jerry Murray]

I have been selling Chevy's at the same metro location since Nov. 1988. Most people will buy from a domestic if they compare side by side with a drive and feature and bennefit demonstration. Gm has features not available on import cars. One large feature is GM ONSTAR. The problem is: Dave Schuler says...
Oh, and one more thing: Ford and GM don't view retail car buyers as their customers. Their customers are auto dealers.
The manufacturers have stripped the proffit to the dealer and they are not focussing on the end use customer. Rebates should go to the dealer not the customer if this is the case pointed out by Dave Schuler...
GM has followed the path of Oli Evenrude and it is biting us in the crank. We have our dealer network gashing at each other to see who can get the customer in with the lowest advertized price in the media's. The internet and increased dealer network is drowning the profitability in new vehicle sales.

The product is very similar with quality and content. People do not buy as often because all the cars run better, last longer and have good safety ratings. Often at a family gathering my relatives will say, " I wish you sold Toyota's I would come and see you." They are treated so well with true after the sale value that I would run my business that way too. If I get the opprtunity to sell value against the imports I can win most often. We need to get them in the door. People bye from people they like and trust.
I lose deals to other Chevy dealers because they slash their price to no profit because the GM incentive programs reward them for numbers. Numbers vs doing a good job with servicing the sale.

While the imports are enjoying their lean overhead GM is still the largest corporation in the US of A.
The vehicles are safe, roomy and responsive with features for every buyer. From Corvette to Hummer we have a leader in design and character. The problem is the lack of American Spirit in this country. I recently had a well traveled friend call me to see how I was doing. He had just come back from CHINA. He told me that the biggest selling cars in CHINA are Buicks.

If the China population wants to be like us, and we want to be driving the imports, then we should all talk the same language when we go to the bank. Do not ask me what language I prefer, I live in America, I wore an American uniform and I want America to be American for my grandchildren.
Jerymu

[anne]

Me, I do not want a Corvette or a Hummer (though I have fantasies of crushing through walls and the like as much as the next person), I only want a nice sort of Prius and that you have not. So, I drive my Prius and think happy American Prius driving thoughts.

[anne]

Oh, about Ole Evinrude, I was recently told by an engineer that Evinrude is making fabulously efficient engines just now.

[Jason]

LOL any one who thinks American cars are better than Japanese are IGNORANT. Buy an American car to support America? Japanese cars are built with more American parts than American cars are! and they are manufactured largely in the U.S. too. Japanese cars still don't have the market share they deserve because all the patriot, ethnocentric minded Americans think American cars are superior. Hey if you want to buy a piece of shit, go right on a head. I'm not the one that will be paying all the repair bills.

[Toyota man]

No, I'm a Toyota Guy, mind you all though that on my second and third choice is chevy and Dodge, By far, you could ask any car repairman or enthusiast and agree that Toyota has the better quality engine. sure, looks may not be great, but hey, they make a truck that gets more than 8 mpg's and heck, at 400,000 miles (yes, my truck has just that much and HAS NOT been in the shop once) they run better than any Ford or Chevy. Yeah, the lil' tacoma is small, but damnit, they're much better.

[Toyota man]

Oh, and besides, Toyota is NOT made in Japan, they were bought out and are now MADE in Indiana, unlike GM vehicles where parts are made over seas.

[Eric]

People people. You have to understand a few things about the Auto industry.

The "big Three" are making cars better then ever. Then Media tries to say that the north American industry is not as good as the Japanese products.

You live in the US support the US. If you think that buying Japanese products is helping the US it is not. You are just making things difficult for everyone.

Do you all realize that there are over 1 million People in Michigan working for the "big 3" alone. Not to mention all the suppliers that feed the "big 3"

You people that buy the other brands are affecting everything. House market, commodities, Gas. Go get a loan from a bank? You not helping the US Automaker effects everyone in the US.

All the profits on that Lexus (overpriced Toyota) that Acura (overpriced Honda) and that Infinity (overpriced Nissan) goes back to Japan-land!!! Also I ask you how about the playing ground for imports VS exports.
Did you know that we are charged 26% taxes on cars imported to Japan. The US only charges Japan 2%. Nice playing ground!!! How fare is that People Think!! Seems to me that we have an open market but they do not.

Also lets talk about the 25 Billion that we are asking for to help with Technology. Does anyone know that the transplants make deals with the State not to pay taxes and get billions of dollars in tax breaks if the place a plant in there state. Also all the moneys that that plant puts into the building the facility all the equipment is purchased over-seas. I know I have worked in the Nissan facility and Honda facility. I have quoted projects for these foreign companies that never gave me the jobs but have asked me to waist my time and quoting.

You all should understand everything before you buy.!! If you do not know the whole picture you must investigate prior to purchase.

[Rene]

WELL LET ME MAKE A COUPLE THINGS CLEAR ABOUT THE U.S INDUSTRY WHERE IS THE FORD FUSION MADE MEXICO AND CANADA RIGHT? AND THE TOYOTA CAMRY AND HONDA ACCORD KENTUCKY AND OHIO SO IN THE LONG RUN WHO IS MORE AMERICAN THE FUSION OR CAMRY THE CAMRY IS AMERICAN 100% AMERICAN AND JAPANESE 65% OF THE MUSTANG IS MADE IN CANADA WHY IS THAT I GUESS BECAUSE LABOR PARTS IN THE FOREIGN COUNTRIES IS CHEAPER TOYOTA HONDA NISSAN WILL ALWAYS BE BETTER THAN GMC FORD AND CHRYSLER WHY BECAUSE THE ENGINE TECHNOLOGY THAT THE JAPANESE HAVE THE AMERICAN COUNTERPARTS WISH THEY HAD IT YEAH EVERBODY SAYS BUY AMERICAN PRODUCTS FINE GEE I WONDER WHY WE GET MANY THINGS MADE IN CHINA JAPAN MEXICO AND GERMANY WHY BECAUSE LABOR COSTS ARE CHEAPER OVER THERE THAT'S WHY AND THEY LEAVE AMERICA WITHOUT JOBS.WHY IS GMC WASTING SO MUCH MONEY IN THE CADILLAC CTS AND SAY OH IS THE BEST CAR THERE IS IN THE MARKET AND THEN THE INFINITI G35S CAME AND BEAT IT IN EVERYTHING YOU CAN THINK OFF IN THE LUXURY CAR MARKET INDUSTRY I'LL TELL YOU WHAT TO THOSE PEOPLE THAT DON'T LIKE THE JAPANESE AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY AMERICA NEVER THOUGHT THAT TOYOTA HONDA NISSAN MITSUBISHI HYUNDAI AND KIA MADE CARS MORE EFFICIENT THAN THE COMPETITION AND THE SAD THING ABOUT THIS IS THAT THE AMERICANS SHOWED THE JAPANESE HOW TO MAKE CARS AND NOW THE JAPANESE ARE IN TOP WHY BECAUSE THEY TAKE PRIDE ON WHAT THEY DO UNLIKE HERE THAT THEY MAKE CARS AND THEY DON'T TAKE PRIDE ON WHAT THEY DO MO WONDER EVERY FORD AND GMC AND CHRYSLER BREAKS DOWN EASILY AND THEY GO TO A JAPANESE DEALER LIKE TOYOTA AND HONDA AND DRIVE OUT A BRAND NEW CIVIC CORROLLA ACCORD AND/OR CAMRY GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS THE JAPANESE AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY WILL LEAD INTO THE FUTURE

[RENE]

ALSO YOU KNOW WHAT IS THE PROBLEM OF THE AMERICAN AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY THEY TRY TO CATCH MARKET WITH FANCY BRANDS THAT EXISTED 35 TO 40 YEARS AGO FOR EXAMPLE THE CAMARO THE BOSS AND THE CHALLENGER WHY WOULD YOU BRING OUT A CAR THAT HAS 400HP TO 650HP WHY WOULD YOU THAT THEY JUST DON'T GET IT THAT THIS CARS ARE EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE AND GAS GUZZLERS UNLESS YOUR PERSON THAT EARNS ALOT$$$$$$$$$$ THAN THE PRICE AND MPG WON'T MATTER BUT FOR THE REGULAR PERSON WITH A JOB AND A HOUSE AND KIDS I DON'T THINK SO THAT IS WHERE AN ALTIMA 2.5S ACCORD 2.4 OR CAMRY 2.4 COME INTO PLAY I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY CAN GMC FORD CHRYSLER SELL CARS AND SEDANS THAT ARE 6 AND 8 CYLINDERS LIKE IF THE AMERICAN AUTOMOTIVE DELAERS WOULD SELL THE CARS THAT MAKE 20 MPG AND UP IN THE CITY AND UP AND 30MPG AND UP IN THE HWY I BET THEY WOULD DO GOOD AND FOR THE SUV'S V6 AND V8 PICKUP TRUCKS AND WORKING VANS MAKE THESE ORDERS SPECIALIZED IN OTHER WORDS IF I GO PURCHASE A VAN DON'T HAVE A 2ND FLOOR FULL OF 45 VANS NO!!!!!!! ORDER THE VAN FOR ME IF AMERICAN AUTOMOTIVE DELEARS WOULD ORDER THE BIG VEHICLES ACCORDING TO THE CUSTOMER'S CALL AND SELL THE CARS THAT MAKE 20MPG IN THE CITY AND UP AND 30MPG AND UP I BET THEY WOULD START PICKING UP SELLS BUT I GUESS THEY WOULD NEVER DO THAT BECAUSE THEY ARE SO MANY INTERESTS AND UNIONS INVOLVED WITH THAT BUT IN ANY CASE I WOULD ALWAYS SAY THAT THE JAPANESE AUTOMOBILES AND THE GERMAN AUTOMOBILES BMW AND MERCEDES BENZ WILL BE BETTER THAN THE AMERICAN COUNTERPARTS THE ONLY THING I LIKE ABOUT THE AMERICAN VEHICLES ARE THE WORKING VANS AND THE BIG PICKUP TRUCKS AND THAN OF COURSE IF I HAD TO PICK BETWEEN THE FUSION AND MALIBU I WILL PICK THE FUSION IS MORE STYLISH

[RENE]

THIS GUY GREG SAYS THAT A TOYOTA REMAINS IN A SHOP FOR WEEKS AND THAT IS NOT QUALITY WELL TELL YOU WHAT I SEEN FORD CRASHING INTO NISSANS AND TOYOTA AND HONDAS AND I AM TALKING ABOUT ONE TIME A FORD EXPEDITION SUV CRASHED INTO AN ALTIMA THE ALTIMA YOU MIGHT THINK IT STAYED INTO A SANDWICH BUT GUESS WHAT THE ALTIMA WAS IN GOOD CONDITION THE ONE THAT NEEDED TO GO TO SHOP FOR WEEKS OR EVEN MONTHS WAS THE EXPEDEITION AND FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT EVERYTHING IS MADE IN AMERICA NEXT TIME YOU HOLD AND ELECTRONIC AND ELECTRICAL DEVICE CHECK WHERE IS MADE ON GEE AHHH MADE IN CHINA AND OTHER FOREIGN COUNTRIES SO DON'T TELL ME TO BUY AMERICAN BECAUSE MOSTLY THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE ARE NOT EVEN MADE IN THE USA AND YOU KNOW WHY IS THIS ALLOWED BECAUSE WE SHOULD HAVE JOBS HERE IN AMERICA HOW CAN YOU I THINK IT TIME FOR US AS AMERICANS TO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE AND SAY WE NEED TO GIVE JOBS TO OUR OWN PEOPLE NOT TO THE FOREIGNERS DON'T YOU THINK LADIES AND GENTLEMEN IF WE AS CITIZENS PROTEST THIS TO THE GOVERNMENT AND THE MEDIA DON'T YOU THINK THEY WOULD LISTEN

[James]

Oil is at the center of the two major problems today - terrorism and global warming. When you buy gas, you are funding Saudi Wahabi Fundamentalists. These are the guys who produce the 19 suicide bombers who attacked us on 9/11. We funded that by buying gas. At the same time, our cars are stealing the earth we know from our grandkids. They'll grow up in a different world of violent weather and natural disasters because of our internal combustion engines.

With this in mind, I am proud that GM is building the VOLT, and I hope they will include a rooftop solar array and fuel cell, so that every buyer can solve the world's two major problems, while driving for free. The Volt is a big step toward weakening petro-dictatorships, and creating a livable world for future generations.

I hope that GM has a rebirth after this near-death experience, with the MIT approach or without, as the green automaker who stopped terrorism and saved the future. To provide a better, peaceful planet where US companies lead is possible, and perhaps this will be GM's moment. I'm betting on the Volt.

[calmo]

James, not one to fiddle with the obvious connections that we (even seasoned, very experienced tested ) mortals dub 'cause and effect' (no sooner typed than I am stunned by the possibility of Miraculous Intervention...this could be one) writes:With this in mind, But, you know how it is with my tenuous connections ...my mind is not real connected to James's...not yet. You?
This is what is in Jame's mind:When you buy gas, you are funding Saudi Wahabi Fundamentalists. (Just don't fill up wearing a bed sheet hoping your excuse that It's Laundry Day Forchrisakes will save you from the rednecks.) And this:At the same time, our cars are stealing the earth we know from our grandkids. (Just don't decide to turn the ignition off during rush hour and expect people to give you a Purple Heart for returning the planet to our grandchildren...esp if you are still wearing the bed sheet, you know?)
And this: I'm betting on the Volt. Well, I bet anne is betting on the Prius. (So much is bi-partisan these days, yes?) But actually unless she drives and blogs, I know she's betting on blogging.

And you?

[Ernie Harrison]

I used to buy Oldsmobiles and there was always something going bad. I bought a Toyota and have had it for several years without a problem. Customer Satisfaction Is the reason people buy Toyota.
Ernie

[common sense]

Free markets only work when the rules are followed. I see a lot out there about quality and manufacturing, sweatshops and unreasonable labor union costs, but I don't see anything about trade deficit. There is a comment about being racist for not wanting a foreign boss; I don't think this comment accounts for the nationalist agenda of our foreign counterparts. The Toyota push to normalize a foreign product to be as American as apple pie is evident everywhere you look. Turn on the TV and you'll see a Toyota-sponsored NFL game. Like fishing? Yeah, Toyota sponsors Bass Masters tournaments, too. They even managed to buy their way into NASCAR.

From a fair playing field, nothing is wrong with any of these actions at all. But forgo playing fair and the actions become more of a ploy to manipulate and less to engage in free trade. Want to compete? Then we'd better level the playing field and levy a significant sales tax on foreign products. Or just have a better sense of nationalism.

[ADRIAN fresquez]

Gentlemen..And ladies..I emplore you to look at 'real world' issues.. Chris had a lot of things right. We 'AMERICANS' are not buying american products..Why? One big one... Marketing.. Toyota and Honda have done an excellent job marketing their products.."I want my MPG"..Remember that? oh I'm sure you do..I recently heard a GM commercial on one of my favorite radio stations (geared for the higher IQ's) and I could not believe how unrefined and ..what was the word I heard? "Ghetto" it sounded. Honda and Toyota's marketing strategy is has been well thought out, articulate and downright cool, while the big three is cool to the guy listening to Leanard skinnard and Def Leapard (I actually like them both)still stuck in his garage band days. Rediculous to the point of being offensive! Don't get me wrong..I love Toyota/Honda quality but they do have their faults.. The MANY Tundra problems, Lexis electrical, Nissan problems, embellished mpg ratings, etc.. I don't think they are any better than any american THESE DAYS. I'm talking 90's on up. However, many people have pre-concieved notions about Toyota/honda, Most unmerited.
Another reason is our ability to be brainwashed by media and our friends into thinking what's cool. It seem's 'cool' is to be to be against Americans lately. Where did we go wrong? I do agree that GM, Ford and Chrysler have a long way to go to be 'successful' companies, they do have a lot plagueing them (health care, pensions, CEO incentives ,Gm mid size car stying..etc..) Gm/ford and Chrystler need to bring that 'cool' back and get our pride going again...we need to turn that anti-american attitude around...Where did we go wrong? Our youth is so stuck on trying to be different and rebel, and our early generation Y not willing to open their minds to anything new, we are losing sight of who we are. I may be rambling but I feel like we all lost something significant...our pride.By the way, I own a Corvete, a Solara, a Silverado, and an off road Jeep. I am pleased with them all.

[djwdoc]

Hi--

I studied some of Detroit's efforts to respond to the Japanese automobile companies (Saturn, for example, which was started up in Spring Hill, Tn, and supposed to escape toxic corporate culture at GM with new Lewin/Deming derived management-labor relations, and NUMMI, a joint venture with a Japanese automobile company). The underlying problem was resistance on the part of management and labor to fully buy into cooperative manufacturing, leading to crippling lack of support for these ventures.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/01/business/saturn.php

Japan believes in harmony and finds conflict intolerable. The US believes in competition, and likes the idea of winners and losers. So emotion has remorselessly throttled pragmatism in both management and labor relations and in management practices.

But Six Sigma has been implemented, notably at Ford:

http://www.qualitydigest.com/sept01/html/ford.html

If you look at recent quality ratings, US automobile manufacturers rate quite highly:

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?id=2008063

And the Economist reports that until the recent downturn, GM was the number one brand in China, with 30% annual growth over several years.

Management still sees itself as a Brahman caste, perhaps, but management practices are greatly improved. And discounting the expenses of health care that foreign companies don't face (either because they are in countries where neither business nor government provides any health care, or where government health care programs take that burden from companies) is unfair.

The irony is that Detroit has been listening, though unfortunately management's irrational biases against believing things like global warming could be true, and high fuel costs could once again dominate market decisions have once again put them in the position that they are.

Upper management (like most people who don't think they could be irrationally biased, and who think they have unique insights that don't need the support of reason) have screwed up. But Detroit is a Titanic that can turn from the iceberg, if given a chance. Sure, punish the would-be emperors of commerce who think they rule by divine right rather than by performance for shareholders. But don't destroy an industry that slowly but surely is returning to competence.

[raffke]

this guy is faggy?