Paul Krugman: The Comeback Continent

How has Europe been doing lately? Paul Krugman says a lot better than you might think from listening to the "anti-government ideology that dominates much U.S. political discussion":

The Comeback Continent, by Paul Krugman, Commentary NY Times: Today I’d like to talk about ... the European economy, which many Americans assume is tired and spent but has lately been showing surprising vitality.

Why should Americans care about Europe’s economy? Well,... it’s important ... because the alleged woes of that economy play an important role in American political discourse, usually as an excuse for the insecurities and injustices of our own society.

For example, does Hillary Clinton have a plan to cover the millions of Americans who lack health insurance? “She takes her inspiration from European bureaucracies,” sneers Mitt Romney.

Or are top U.S. executives grossly overpaid? ...Michael Jensen, a professor emeritus at Harvard’s Graduate School of Business whose theories helped pave the way for gigantic paychecks, considers executive excess “an acceptable price to pay for an American economy that he believes has outstripped Japan and Europe in growth and prosperity.”

In fact, however, tales of a moribund Europe are greatly exaggerated.

It’s true that Europe has had a lot of economic troubles over the past generation. ... And in the 1990s, Europe lagged behind America in the adoption of new technology. For example, in 1997 fewer than 15 percent of French homes contained personal computers and fewer than 1 percent were connected to the Internet.

But that was then.

Since 2000, employment has actually grown a bit faster in Europe than in the United States... In particular, in the prime working years, from 25 to 54, the big gap between European and U.S. employment rates that existed a decade ago has been largely eliminated. If you think Europe is a place where lots of able-bodied adults just sit at home collecting welfare checks, think again.

Meanwhile, Europe’s Internet lag is a thing of the past. The dial-up Internet of the 1990s was dominated by the United States. But as dial-up has given way to broadband, Europe has more than kept up. ... Europe’s connections are both substantially faster and substantially cheaper than ours.

I don’t want to exaggerate the good news. Europe continues to have many economic problems. But who doesn’t? The fact is that Europe’s economy looks a lot better now ... than it did a decade ago.

What’s behind Europe’s comeback? It’s a complicated story, probably involving a combination of deregulation (which has expanded job opportunities) and smart regulation. One of the keys to Europe’s broadband success is that unlike U.S. regulators, many European governments have promoted competition, preventing phone and cable companies from monopolizing broadband access.

What European countries definitely haven’t done is dismantle their strong social safety nets. Universal health care is a given. So are a variety of programs that support families in trouble, helping protect Europeans from the extreme poverty all too common in this country. All of this costs money — even though European countries spend far less on health care than we do — and European taxes are very high by U.S. standards.

In short, Europe continues to be a big-government sort of place. And that’s why it’s important to get the real story of the European economy out there.

According to the anti-government ideology that dominates much U.S. political discussion, low taxes and a weak social safety net are essential to prosperity. Try to make the lives of Americans even slightly more secure, we’re told, and the economy will shrivel up — the same way it supposedly has in Europe.

But the next time a politician tries to scare you with the European bogeyman, bear this mind: Europe’s economy is actually doing O.K. these days, despite a level of taxing and spending beyond the wildest ambitions of American progressives.

Comments

[dissent]

Can I move?

Really, the brutality of this country is too much sometimes.

[Gil]

Maybe Conservatives and Libertarians should take a dose of their own medicine - it's productivity stupid. Who knows maybe a mild welfare society is more productive than a no-holds-barred capitalist society? Maybe making allowances for people to cooperate and see other people potential partners is better than a Darwinistic survivest of the fittest where people potentially see others as an enemy. The way Conservatives and Libertarians talk about conspiracies and how everyone else is against them suggest their mentality does tend toward the Darwinist vein.

[reason]

Dissent...
before someone nastier than beats me to it. Yes. The option to move to Canada is always available. (I'm saying that as an ex-pat Aussie living in Europe. My brother lives in Canada. Three other siblings are still down under.)

[Lizzy Dripping]

The low number of Internet connections in France in 1997 is hardly surprising given the ubiquity of the then well-established Minitel system there. In this case, it looks like the Americans had the advantage of relative backwardness - not to mention essentailly free dial-up thanks to government-mandated local call rates. And don't forget the costs to Germany of re-unification - it required a special tax and the mothballing or suspenson of many infrastructure projects.

[Icarus]

The problem with US-European comparisons is that the two geographic regions (largely) have very different attitudes when it comes to shepharding their population.

Everything is pretty expensive in Europe, save health care and pensions, for the populations allowed in the system. Food on the street, food in restaurants, shoes, clothes, service, etc...all of it seems 2-3 times as expensive as in most US cities. (I just spent the past 20 days in zurich, vienna, budapest, prague, bratislava, salzburg, and paris)...
I spoke to working class people, and most told me that they just don't eat out, or buy too many goods, or depend on services such as dry cleaning and such.
There is a sense of safety when it comes to health, work, and retirement. But, the cost is the juissance of needless consumption.

In the US, we've embraced alternative gods. We love to consume, and believe in the "right" to do so, even if one incurs great debt along the way. We are a nation of small purchases and great debt.
The trade off is neo-liberal disconnection and individual responsibility (or the path towards that). We don't care about the health, employment, or old age of stranger-citizens.

For the left, the US is barbaric, and the European system seems "fair".
For others, such sympathy is misguided. The paradigm of "freedom" wins over "fairness". As the ascriptive hold of nation-ness withers away, the cold reality is that no central government will effectively insure welfare in the heartless world of market transactions. One better 'add value', and save.

[reason]

Icarus,
just why do think there is a democratic party in the US? Clearly according to your characterisation of the US, the election should be a fight between the Libertarian party and the Theocratic party.

[Cyrille]

The current value of the dollar must explain a lot of the perceived price difference.

I last travelled to USA in 2004, and I certainly didn't feel that eating out was cheaper than what I'd pay for a similar quality meal in France, once VAT and service are included (in France it is included in the price you read on the menu), rather the contrary.
Of course, where we'd save was everytime a restaurant agreed to have us order a single meal, since my wife and I never managed to quite finish one between the two of us. So there is silly quantity, but two people eating a meal for one is not a major entry in prices comparisons.

The reason I comparatively rarely eat out is I feel there is more of an invitation to cook for my friends than to go to a restaurant. And you get much better wine (unless you are prepared to really spend through the roof -but that was even worse in USA). And I know exactly where the ingredients are coming from of course. And well, eating home is generally more pleasant I feel. But I am yet to meet a guest who would describe a dinner we serve as amounting to a renunciation of the jouissance of consumption. Rather the contrary.

[hari]

Thanks Paul for finally taking up the challenge and comparing the social/political pradigm across the Atlantic between two not so dissimilar social systems.

Now, I'd like to see a more deeper and consequent analysis of the comparable economic condition in the two systems.
For example, protection of the handicapped and their care?
Kindergarten and mother's welfare? Pregnancy leave and social insurance? Health Care and unit cost of treatment based on a malady of serious consequence today? Education across the board?

Of interest also is the role of political parties on the continent and their sagacity to not only inform but also bring about change?

And a lot more.....

[hari]

Thanks Paul for finally taking up the challenge and comparing the social/political pradigm across the Atlantic between two not so dissimilar social systems.

Now, I'd like to see a more deeper and consequent analysis of the comparable economic condition in the two systems.
For example, protection of the handicapped and their care?
Kindergarten and mother's welfare? Pregnancy leave and social insurance? Health Care and unit cost of treatment based on a malady of serious consequence today? Education across the board?

Of interest also is the role of political parties on the continent and their sagacity to not only inform but also bring about change?

And a lot more.....

[Lafayette]

Article: “She (Hillary) takes her inspiration from European bureaucracies,” sneers Mitt Romney.

Sneers, does he? Romney should understand that of the Top Fifteen in the World Health Organization’ study of global Health Care systems, nine where European.

And, most are very much like the American system, which calls for both employer and employee contributions to subsidize necessary HC Insurance. But, none of them are based upon monopolistic pricing of practitioner services according to whatever the market will bear. And, all of them offer 100% coverage of national residents.

Health Care – due to its nature as a service – should be a Public Service. If doctors want to pursue their profession as a Private Practice, that’s fine. But, there must be a lower-cost alternative that invokes mandated prices for the services.

Americans should not have to shoulder the burden of a Heath Care system that is about 4 times more costly than it should be -- due principally to the fact that a GP earns nearly three times more than a teacher and two times more than an engineer.

Here’s an excerpt from a recent story in the NYT (entitled "A Safety-Net Hospital Falls Into Financial Crisis"):
Like other public hospitals, Grady is operating on a business model that is no longer sustainable. A third of the hospital’s patients, including those treated as outpatients, are uninsured, among them a rapidly growing group of immigrants. Another third are covered by Medicaid, which reimburses at rates well below Grady’s actual costs. Many hospitals use their privately insured patients to subsidize indigent care, but at Grady, only 8 percent of inpatients fit the privately insured category.

If Grady Hospital cannot make ends meet, why in hell must it depend upon the benevolence of donors for a service that is as much a birthright as Defense or Public Order, or Education?

[Lafayette]

Article: What’s behind Europe’s comeback? It’s a complicated story, probably involving a combination of deregulation (which has expanded job opportunities) and smart regulation..

Fundamental difference in mentality

Well, yes and no.

I wish we could make macro-statements about Europe, as we can about the US – but this is sadly not yet the case. I am heartened, nonetheless, that macro-statistics are more and more being aggregated into an “EU”, which is much more comparable than just France or Germany (or France & Germany) to the US.

But, Europe remains a patch-work of diverse statistical parameters. We had 5% unemployment in the UK, not so long ago, against 10% in France and Germany. We have very large differences in inflation rates, even under the single currency, which makes the job of the European Central Bank hair-raising.

And, looking into the future doesn’t change all that much. Just a year a go everyone was crowing about Germany’s export success in the face of an appreciating euro. A week ago, the head of Germany’s largest business association thought aloud that repeating past performance was going to get more difficult in the future.

Dislocations are still happening at an alarming rate. Foreign-make cars (both near and far east) are widening the breach in Europe.

Airbus is still into restructuring and, if the redundancies have hit very hard the sub-contractors, they have not been felt by direct employees. Still, no one would be surprised to see redundancies at the company itself if the euro keeps rising. It got over-bloated with the typical management hubris as seen stateside – that something good automatically must last forever.

Ditto for the rest of European industry for as long as the dollar remains as week as it is. Europe’s largest export market is the US, and with the high cost of its goods in the US, coupled with an eminent recession stateside, no one is expecting great results for exports. So, everybody is scrambling to get their act together in China.

Let’s hope they will not be disappointed, but it is entirely possible that the Chinese will not be waiting with open arms. In fact, what the Chinese want are key industrial partnerships -- with technology-transfer such that they can replicate it all by themselves and resell to the world.

Yes, Europe has done much to deregulate its industries, but it has done so in the European fashion. Which means, no brusque changes. Europe evolves customs/norms, it doesn’t revolutionize them, for fear of causing mass social disruption.

And, finally, there is this fundamental difference in mentality. In the US, when it comes to finger pointing, we say “it’s the economy, stupid”. In Europe, we say, “It’s the stupid government, stupid”.

Europeans still trust the state to “get it right”. That mentality has to change. The "cocooning" of the postwar years are over and past, but too many people still long for their return.

They have met the enemy, and it is themselves.

[anne]

"In short, Europe continues to be a big-government sort of place. And that’s why it’s important to get the real story of the European economy out there."

"In short, America continues to be a big-government sort of place. And that’s why it’s important to get the real story of the American economy out there."

The problem is that even Paul Krugman is forgetting that America is the real big-government sort place. America is the place of $750 billion in military spending, America is the place of $200 billion in spending on the tragedy of war and occupation. Spending $750 billion on the military and $200 on needless war and occupation, spending what will be more than $2 trillion on needless war and occupation makes us a defitive big-government sort of place.

America is what big-government is all about, big-government in the service of trillions of squandered dollars on the tragedy of war and occupation that need not have been and need not be.

[Lafayette]

Cy: But I am yet to meet a guest who would describe a dinner we serve as amounting to a renunciation of the jouissance of consumption. Rather the contrary.

What oil is to a motor

Well said.

What I like most about home-served meals is the resulting richness of discussion in France around a table. One can discuss just about everything and nearly everyone has a well articulated opinion.

The debate can get very controversial, but rarely does it lead to personal animosity. There is a sense of dignity that reigns. Politeness is maintained -- it is to living what oil is to a motor. Oil keeps the motor from seizing.

[Miguel]

"Clearly according to your characterisation of the US, the election should be a fight between the Libertarian party and the Theocratic party."

For europeans standards, these is exaclty what your election are

[reason]

Miguel,
I'm not American. And you are mistaking the Republican nomination for the election proper.

[Farrar]

Ahh, Icarus is back !
" The trade off is neo-liberal disconnection and individual responsibility (or the path towards that). We don't care about the health, employment, or old age of stranger-citizens.
For the left, the US is barbaric, and the European system seems "fair". 
For others, such sympathy is misguided. The paradigm of "freedom" wins over "fairness". As the ascriptive hold of nation-ness withers away, the cold reality is that no central government will effectively insure welfare in the heartless world of market transactions. One better 'add value', and save."
In a way you are right, Icky. In the unfair world that we live in, intelligent and disciplined individuals such as yourself (Will flattery get me anywhere?) are perhaps better off opting for neo-liberal disconnection and responsibility.
But for those of us who are still hoping, even working for a fairer world (and I am surprised that you have given up on this, considering your choice of alias) this seems like counter productive short term thinking.
(In the long run we'll all be dead, but so will our grand children if we don't solve a few obvious problems.)
Most important, I believe you are wrong in stating that there is a contradiction between fairness and freedom. Our position, of course is that there is no real freedom without fairness, except perhaps for those privileged economically. This is why equality themes are so popular - fairness - giving everyone an equal chance in life - seems essential for true freedom.
The problem, of course, is getting from here to there, and the consequent turmoil it will entail. You have chosen disengagement. Perhaps you have already fallen into the sea (of despair?), but it seems you have a life raft. Fortunately, some hopeful idealists will keep working for a fairer world.

[Lafayette]

Farrar: The paradigm of "freedom" wins over "fairness".

Neither Billionaires Nor BigBrother

This is what is most exasperating of American arguments, which reduce a complex debate to sound-bites and then draws an idiot conclusion between them. (Not that you've done that, F.)

A nation can have a bent for individualism. For all the BigGovernment in France, it could do with a bit of Yankee Individualism -- instead of sending those who want to make real money away to the UK or US. (Total taxation in France is the second highest in Europe at 45% of GDP.)

A nation can also have a concern for the well-being of its people, sensing that human dignity is far more important than building a jackpot of billions then quiting the cash-cow to dedicate oneself to a lifetime of benevolence.

Both notions are compatible within a nation of intelligent people. That is, in a nation that knows how to select the middle ground in terms of behavioural values.

Or, to put it in simpler terms perhaps American understand best: Neither Billionaires Nor BigBrother.

[The Baron]

Lafayette makes a really good point. You often see individual EU 'states' compared against the bulk of the U.S. And, as Krugman, and several other commenters have done, you see cherry picked examples of where those individual states excel over the perceived U.S. as a whole.

I will be the first to admit that, once I retire, there are many specific places I would love to live in in the EU. But, just like there are major differences between Prague and Amsterdam, between Krakow and London, and their respective countries, there are large differences between Lansing and Dallas, Atlanta and New York, Denver and Los Angeles, and their respective states.

It seems disingenuous to pit the U.S., which includes Michigan, against Germany, and 'forget Poland'. Or the U.S., including West Virginia, against France while ignoring the Czech Republic. Especially cherry picking health care costs, but not beds available, wait times for specific procedures, etc. (across the entire EU), and not including comparable unemployment statistics, comparable cost of living information (which I would love to see the typical EU lifestyle cost in a typical U.S. city, and vice-versa), and truly comparable GDP and efficiency numbers.

I'm not saying that it would necessarily change the outcome. It may well be, that holistically, the EU system results in a much better overall economy and quality of life (for a wide range of lifestyles*) than the U.S. system, but you never really see the truly comparable comparisons.

*You can easily live a European lifestyle in the U.S. if you care to, I am not so sure the reverse is true.

[Lafayette]

LD: And don't forget the costs to Germany of re-unification - it required a special tax and the mothballing or suspenson of many infrastructure projects

I thought German reunification WAS an infrastructure project! Silly me.

A shame they didn't get it right.

[evagrius]

Perhaps a problem in the U.S. is that there's always a search for a "fix" to what ails the society;

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/HomeMortgageSavings/MiddleClassCrunchConundrum_SeriesHome.aspx

Notice how there's a "fix" for everything, from taxes to health care to education to retirement. Always a "fix", since these are "mechanical" or "systemic problems" .

But there are no "fixes", only social agreements between people to mtually support each other's necessary needs.

Fixes imply that no one needs to do anything onerous such as sharing obligations etc;

[anne]

"You can easily live a European lifestyle in the U.S. if you care to, I am not so sure the reverse is true."

The point is this is rubbish for many and growing numbers of people, beginning with lack of health care and terrible education costs, and on. The proper comparison is of course with France and with Germany and with Sweden and with the Netherlands and with Norway not with gradually integrating and developing Poland. But, always, allowing us to learn from the French is beoynd deceiving conservatives.

[anne]

The integration of a terribly poor East Germany in West Germany since 1990 has been a remarkable success, but comparing America with East Germany in 1990 is comically absurd. Understanding why America cannot even protect the health of 3.8 million needy children, let alone work on poverty as has Germany, is proper understanding.

America of course is sort of kind of like imitating Germany in spending $2 trillion dollars, on integrating and developing Iraq. Statehood for Iraq, as Hawaii, is near.

[anne]

The only danger to Europe from here, as the Poles have come to understand in complaining about an American missile system to protect Polish women from women-seeking Iranian missiles, the only danger to Europe is a nutty Nicholas Sarkozy wishing to be Napoleon. But, Sarkozy only wants an imperial America to crown him Emperor, the French being otherwise too sane to wish to fight for another emperor.

Vivat.

[Lafayette]

TB: You can easily live a European lifestyle in the U.S. if you care to, I am not so sure the reverse is true

I am not sure there are many Europeans who would want to live a European lifestyle in the US. The image of the US is very negative since lead-head took office.

I know dozens and dozens of Europeans who have gone to the US with enthusiasm. Some have returned rich. But, almost all of them have returned.

This does not prevent 45,000 French Happy Campers who are estimated to live in Miami, or the 75,000 that were thought to live in Silicon Valley during its peak. About 300,000 French are thought to live in the US. About half that amount of Americans may live in France. To my knowledge there is no exact tally.

[hari]

Anne -

Your preoccupation with Sarkosy is interesting (let alone his current romance!).

Let me calm you down a bit - after next US general election Sarkosy will've to deal with a different set of political policy framework in D.C.

There're other development - he takes over EU-27 Presidency for six months mid-summer!

[Cyrille]

"Total taxation in France is the second highest in Europe at 45% of GDP."

Actually, it's 44.1% (OK, that is a trivial correction), and at least Sweden, Belgium and Denmark have higher taxation (maybe others too).

http://www.economist.com/daily/chartgallery/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10024610

That being said, it is a country with comparatively high taxation.

As for living a European lifestyle in USA, I haven't seen how that would have been possible, at least if I understand that as similar to French lifestyle (sorry, but there is a much bigger difference between Italy and Switzerland, though they share a border, than between New York and California, so "European lifestyle" is a tough one to define).

[mark]

Why no mention of the Irish miracle?

I wonder why?

[Worker]

PK should mention that Europe generally is moving toward reducing taxes, esp on the corporate side. I think expectations that taxes will decline, or at least not increase, has something to do with Europe's economic ascendancy. Consider the top US rate for a NY/ CA resident is ~46%. Compare this to Germany with a top marginal rate of 45%. Germany has 30% social security tax vs 15% in the US, but you get healthcare (at least) for the extra 15%. Not a bad deal.

See a list of worldwide tax rates here:
http://www.forbes.com/global/2006/0522/032.html

The largest delta in taxation is not how Europe treats the rich, but in how they tax consumption- VAT & gas taxes primarily. And there are also many loopholes that the rich can use in Europe that don't work in the US (eg. no tax on foreign sourced income.)

Regarding love of big government, I don't think you can characterize European regulatory environment as more onerous than the US when you add-in the capricious US legal system as a regulatory burden.

[anne]

"Consider the top US rate for a NY/ CA resident is ~46%."

I would suggest finding an accountant who can add, because this and the rest is deceiving nonsense.

[Lafayette]

anne: The integration of a terribly poor East Germany in West Germany since 1990 has been a remarkable success

It was an imperative, yes. But, the manner in which it was done was less than smart.

Helmut Koll, afraid that the Osties would flock into the West, offered them an parity exchange (of 1 Oestmark for 1 Deutschemark) of currencies. The consequence was, instead of having an economic competitive advantage over the West of Germany, they inherited its disadvantages in terms of total wage costs. Which are, still, some of the highest in Europe.

The consequence is that a long and tireless effort to attract business to the East of Germany was hopelessly compromised. East Germany could have been like the Czech Republic today, in terms of output and unemployment. But, it isn't.

Which is what happens when politicians disregard economists.

[anne]

I agree the German integration was actually handled poorly, and poorly in a way that should have been understood from the planning, but the resources given to integration showed what could be accomplished even with the poorly legislated concept. Which leads me to wonder what the verdict will be on New Orleans in time, while I am simply trying to follow changes so far. Could we have borrowed some from the German integration?

[Noni Mausa]

Lafayette said: I know dozens and dozens of Europeans who have gone to the US with enthusiasm...

...and many Canadians, too. But here's the difference. They retain their original citizenship and all the benefits this involves. Imagine two persons, identical in all ways except one, Louis, is a Parisian in LA, and the other, Jack, is an American in Paris.

If they both develop a serious illness, they can go home. Louis goes home to guaranteed medical and disability assistance. Jack goes home to huge medical bills and not much help at all.

I have Canadian friends who have taken term positions and worked in the USA. I don't know any, not one, who would jettison their Canadian citizenship. There must be some, but I don't know them.

Noni

[Icarus]

For anyone making a decent 6 figure salary, the top federal tax rate will be 36%. In addition, the state/city rates over that (NYC is 12%, and CA is 9%) will take the overall tax burden into the 45-50% range.

This is why we scream. No government should get close to half of one's labour. That much redistribution is problematic.

[Icarus]

Farrar,

Let me give you a crude example of what I mean by freedom; which is really the freedom to engage in market activities.

A Neo-Liberal expects the freedom to be able to hire a non-union worker, and pay 'market' wages.
A Neo-Liberal expects to be able to purchase goods/services from whomever they legally can, despite the origin of the labour behind it.

Just those two propositions can show us the tension between freedom and fairness. If we have a strong union, and they have fought for 'fair' (ie, above market) wages, would we support a competitor opening a shop/factory nearby, who doesn't hire those union employees, on those agreed terms? Does this new venture have the 'freedom' to hire non-union labour, and have the 'freedom' to engage in market transactions, without the threat of violence?

This is the 'freedom' the US economy tends to support. Chinese goods, Indian services, and a shrinking 'middle class'. Some of us see that as quite fine, as we never really liked that middle class too much anyway, and, above those feelings, just want a better selection of goods/services at any price point. Our economic dollars vote for neo-liberalism. Is this the end result of a type of 'freedom'?

[Icarus]

We have dinner conversations in the US as well. I think that comment is just silly.

Walk around Zurich, Prague, Paris, Vienna, Budapest. See how much a decent meal costs. See how much a pair of shoes costs. Walk into a grocery store, and see how much goods costs.

The comparison to the US is stark. Things are at least 2x more expensive (with shoes, even more).
Of course, those costs reflect the VAT's and other taxes put on them, which sustains the welfare states in those nations.

In the US, we have another model. We try and minimize those costs, and curb some of those services, in the name of hyper-individualism.

The net effect is that populations in the US have the choice to consume more (more shoes, more dinners out, more corn syrup infused foods, more credit card debt).
The other (tacit) understanding is that each person takes care of themselves. You choose how much to consume, how much to save, how much to do whatever with.
But, if you don't have health insurance, or a car, or whatever other basic thing you need, don't blame big brother, don't scream at the govt, don't blame anyone but yourself.

Those who succeed in this are enthused, and love living in the US. Those that don't...well...they don't vote, so they matter little in the political process anyway, they don't read, so, they need a vanguard of leftist academics and journalists speaking for them. And, they don't revolt, because they can watch tv for pennies a day, which keeps them in paralysis.

[Icarus]

Also, this idealization of France/Germany. It seems to come from people disconnected to the situation the 'outsiders' in those nations experience.

Would a Turkish migrant in Germany applaud the welfare state so much? How about those in the slums of Paris? Is burning a car their version of polite dinner conversation?

I understand that some groups, who enjoy the paid holidays and 35 hour work weeks cling to this lifestyle...but, there are outsiders waiting to get in, and they don't get the same services. France/Germany, like the US, is structured upon a policy of exclusion. It has to be.

[anne]

"Consider the top US rate for a NY/ CA resident is ~46%."

This is of course a meaningless deception, but there are those deceivers who will always have it so. Remind me not to fast when I wander through France. All them there pricy welfare socialist communist prices. Poor dear foodless Frenchies.

[Icarus]

So, mighty Anne...what is the top rate in NYC/CA?

Let me hear your alternative stat?

[Icarus]

And, no one said the frenchies were foodless...every american knows, they have fries.

The point is...what about paris ghettos, the riots, the sense of exclusion which is a huge issue there? What about the turks in Germany with little access to the govt largresse?

Do we not, dear trotsyite anne, care about them in our description of benevolent france? Or, does your kingdom of heaven not see the brown skinned ones?

[dirtyal]

What a great bunch of comments following an equally great article.

I was just thinking this morning, while walking the dog, how many people criticise many European lifestyles without having experienced them.

I was thinking that living in the US is probably about half way between living in China and living in France. Then, I was thinking about how few Americans really have enough knowledge about either country to be able to express the kinds of criticisms that we routinely hear from the talk show hosts on the right end of the dial.

Having had adequate experience understanding the lifestyles of many European Union citizens by knowing them personally, I think the "bottom line" is this:

It's a lot more difficult to create an estate in Europe. If you come into the world in a family with very little in the way of "net worth" the chance that you will exit the world and pass on anything to your heirs is a lot lower in European countries than it is in the US.

Having said all that, the lifestyle you can have in the UK, Ireland, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway and a few other countries is a lot better for those people with no "net worth" than it is in the US. You don't really "need" to be a millionaire to live a decent life. People work, have families, get educated, own a home, make provisions for their retirements etc. etc. People still own automobiles, travel, go to school, work etc. There are people who go at it with as much manic gusto as we do in the US, and there are people who live a much more balanced existence and get along just fine.

The real pitty is that a lot of people who could "know better" are being scared by politicians and pundits about giving up our freedom by adopting some of the more humane and enlightened social mores that we see in many European countries.

I think it should be a "law" that people who do not have a well used passport should not criticise the lifestyles that people pursue in Europe. The diffrence between how we allocate our resources in the US, based on a very sharp edged "free market" is not always the best way to accomplish important things.

What we have in the US is a mentality of "I want mine and the heck with everyone else". But when we see what that does to the overall lifestyle, in terms of potholes, law enforcement, urban rot etc. etc. it is not a "slam dunk" that our lifestyle in the US is that much better than anyone else's. Further, when you aggregate the property tax, payroll tax, federal and state income taxes, it can't possibly be that much better fiancially for the "millionaire next door" than a person with a similar background in Western Europe. Then you add on the cost of private healthcare, private education and private everything else that we "need" in the US, and the case can be made that most Western Europeans have a lot better lifestyle than most Americans. It's just different and it's definitely not inferior.

[Icarus]

Dirtyal,

But, the problem is when we discuss emmigrating to those countries with great welfare provisions.

Will Norway accept people from Mexico, India, China? Can they take a few million more? Clearly, they're wealthy, and they have space. Hec, the EU makes it tough for a US citizen to emmigrate over and take part in this system.

Having a structured state with great welfare provisions is interesting. But, how does it embrace the immigrant?...and, with what limitations? This is the critical question, in my opinion.

[anne]

"Do we not, dear Trotsyite...."

Notice the language, notice the crazed intimidation, because what intimidators are about is always and forever intimidation and with a tinge of rotten prejudice for proper flavoring.

[calmo]

Iccy screams:will take the overall tax burden [on the "decent" 6 figure income] into the 45-50% range.

This is why we scream. No government should get close to half of one's labour. That much redistribution is problematic. Now Iccy, would you say that income ,all 6 figures of it, is derived from one's labor (as a brain surgeon? as a tax lawyer? as a lobbyist?...I am too lazy to check the BLS to find these occupations that might qualify) or...from total income streams --the capital gains et al?
An innocent transition (income ->labour), maybe, but part of a much wider myopia (or mendacity): good thing someone can pay the taxes.
Are you surprised that the wealthy don't take to the streets and denounce these unfair tax burdens?
I picture it now: a series of police vehicles leading a parade of limosines...not too many cheerleaders along the road.
Apply a "less problematic redistribution" and discover civil disobedience, unrest, or insurrection as the "Hungry Mob" materializes.
Am I to believe that you are this innocent...or deaf?
Distinctive (not distinguished) Mankiw expresses your opinion though and you might want to check that mendacious source for reinforcement (possibly still in the archives here).

[dirtyal]

Hey Ic--Good point. Are you saying that we can't afford to accept immigrants?

Fast forward another 10 years. We won't be replacing ourselves nearly fast enough if we don't do something to deal with our immigration "problem".

Maybe dealing with it now is an "investment in the future". In ten years, maybe no immigrant in his or her right mind will even want to come here.

Who are we going to get to pay the payroll taxes to support all us old gray haired people if we don't deal with immigration?

My major point is that we are quick to criticise the "modern welfare state" when the quality of life, for most people, is no worse and probably better than what we have in the "greatest country mankind has ever seen".

Life is not that bad in the EU and we certanly don't have all the answers. We are being served some pretty potent koolaid and too many Americans are lapping it up. That's all.

[James Killus]

You "scream," Icarus? Oh, how we do share your pain.

Yes, the top "income tax" rates can go as high as the mid-40s, provided you don't have any mortgage deductions, or any of the host of other loop-de-loops (the top players get stock options; are you not a player? Too bad, I guess).

And I notice you leave out Social Security taxes. Why is that? Oh, right, those are just a tad regressive, aren't they?

But 100% of your paycheck is for your labor, eh? And it's the sweat from your brow, not the privileged position of your firm (for example), and that government contract, those roads you use to get to work, the R&D that created the technical infrastructure (even all that Bell Labs research was accumulated under a patent monopoly). It's all you, baby.

Scratch a libertarian and you find a corporate serf who yearns to be lord of the manor. Corporations are just small fiefs, yearning for sovereignty, with a surly disregard for the rule of law.

[lonesome moderate]

dirtyal I think it should be a "law" that people who do not have a well used passport should not criticise the lifestyles that people pursue in Europe.

Al--those of use who can't afford to travel to Europe don't really appreciate being told that this makes our opinions worthless. Too bad, because I actually agree with you on substance (not that you'd care).

[dirtyal]

Hey Lonesome: Touche. You are absolutely right. You are entitled to you opinion. In the interest of fairness and full disclosure, however, it would be better if the criticism said something like "of course I have never been there and I don't personally know anyone who lives there" but dadgum, I am entitled to my opinion.

I recently saw a bumper sticker that went something like this: "US Army--If you haven't been there, shut up!" I have to admit that I was a little offended by that one. For the same reason.

So, you have my sincere apology. Of course, that's one of the greatest thing about the greatest nation on earth. We are all entitled to our opinions and can express them without too much fear of reproach.

I will tone down my comments in the future.

[Detlef]

Icarus,

What about the turks in Germany with little access to the govt largresse?

Care to tell me which government benefits Turks living in Germany aren´t getting?

[lonesome moderate]

Al - apology accepted, and I appreciate your understanding.

[ilsm]

Amerika is Rome 350 CE without much bread and only the NFL.

[ilsm]

lonesome/dirtyal,

I've been to a number of countries in Europe the past few years.

I do not stay in tourist hotels.

Reminds me of middle class neighborhoods in any large US city I have been familar with. Even the former East Bloc countries.

The country sides were very nice.

[john c. halasz]

Mark Thoma on NPR's "Marketplace". Congrats! Now if you could only convince them to get rid of that David Frum character.

[Patricia Shannon]

t’s true that Europe has had a lot of economic troubles over the past generation. ... And in the 1990s, Europe lagged behind America in the adoption of new technology. For example, in 1997 fewer than 15 percent of French homes contained personal computers and fewer than 1 percent were connected to the Internet.

How horrid. How can one live w/o a home PC? People might actually have to have conversations with their family members! (this is sarcasm)

[Fred]

45% tax rates are not a vicious lie. I used to pay close to 45% tax when I lived in CA and ran my own business. Fed rate was like 39.5% then, CA was 9.5%, I could deduct the CA tax, but then I also had to pay another 1.5% chapter S tax on business profits. You can't really avoid these taxes if you are running a simple business with lots of income and essentially no expenses (computer programmers, lawyers, entertainers). The Fed rate has come down since then but now there is this extra millionaire tax imposed by CA, so it is still quite possible to pay over 40%. But so what? To pay 40% now or 45% then means you are making lots of money. I certainly wasn't screaming when I was paying 45%, unless it was for joy that someone had decided to drop all this loot on what I still consider my undeserving head.

[Tuomas]

This was a good debate!

I think there are a few points in Krugman's article that are somewhat deceptive, like his comparison of "employment-growth" when the more relevant figures ought to be for employment-rates, as he actually refers to. Statistics for unemployed are of course distorted by many factors, as for instance how to handle people who have given up job-seeking.

But his main point is very relevant.
The use of "Europe" in American debate seems to me, as a European who lived and worked half a year in New York (state), to be a strangely disinterested use. People I met in person, and people who write in news papers, seem to use the PICTURE of "Europe" as a vehicle for their arguments or beliefs much more than they seemed interested in any real Europe, wide and diversified as it is.

And me, why did I leave the US so quickly?
I came rather soon to realize that I perceived the US society to be lacking in what I would call national consciousness. I felt that too many didn't care for "what would be best for all of us", only for what could be good for me-myself and my family.
- That was not a society I felt attracted to, not somewhere where I felt an urge to bring up my children or to grow old and sick. I prefer to live somewhere where people silently practice Christian ethics collectively rather than only speak about it. Yes, Protestant Europeans do not go much to churches, but they treat each other as compatriots and as fellow parish-members, which to me is more important.

[mrrunangun]

Since we are reprising this argument, thought I would reprise this list from the CIA factbook. Happy New Year to all.

Rank Country GDP - per capita (PPP) Date of Information
1 Luxembourg $ 71,400 2006 est.
2 Bermuda $ 69,900 2004 est.
3 Jersey $ 57,000 2005 est.
4 Equatorial Guinea $ 50,200 2005 est.
5 United Arab Emirates $ 49,700 2006 est.
6 Norway $ 46,300 2006 est.
7 Guernsey $ 44,600 2005
8 Ireland $ 44,500 2006 est.
9 Cayman Islands $ 43,800 2004 est.
10 United States $ 43,800 2006 est.
11 Andorra $ 38,800 2005
12 British Virgin Islands $ 38,500 2004 est.
13 Iceland $ 38,000 2006 est.
14 Hong Kong $ 37,300 2006 est.
15 Denmark $ 37,100 2006 est.
16 Canada $ 35,700 2006 est.
17 Isle of Man $ 35,000 2005 est.
18 Austria $ 34,700 2006 est.
19 San Marino $ 34,100 2004 est.
20 Switzerland $ 34,000 2006 est.
21 Finland $ 33,500 2006 est.
22 Australia $ 33,300 2006 est.
23 Japan $ 33,100 2006 est.
24 Belgium $ 33,000 2006 est.
25 Sweden $ 32,200 2006 est.
26 Netherlands $ 32,100 2006 est.
27 Germany $ 31,900 2006 est.
28 United Kingdom $ 31,800 2006 est.
29 Singapore $ 31,400 2006 est.
30 France $ 31,200 2006 est.
31 Faroe Islands $ 31,000 2001 est.
32 Italy $ 30,200 2006 est.
33 Monaco $ 30,000 2006 est.
34 European Union $ 29,900 2006 est.
35 Qatar $ 29,800 2006 est.
36 Taiwan $ 29,600 2006 est.
37 Gibraltar $ 27,900 2000 est.
38 Spain $ 27,400 2006 est.
39 Israel $ 26,800 2006 est.
40 New Zealand $ 26,200 2006 est.
41 Bahrain $ 25,600 2006 est.
42 Brunei $ 25,600 2005 est.
43 Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas) $ 25,000 2002 est.
44 Liechtenstein $ 25,000 1999 est.
45 Korea, South $ 24,500 2006 est.
46 Macau $ 24,300 2005
47 Greece $ 24,000 2006 est.
48 Slovenia $ 23,400 2006 est.
49 Kuwait $ 23,100 2006 est.
50 Cyprus $ 23,000 2006 est.
51 Czech Republic $ 22,000 2006 est.
52 Aruba $ 21,800 2004 est.
53 Bahamas, The $ 21,600 2006 est.
54 Malta $ 21,300 2006 est.
55 Estonia $ 20,300 2006 est.
56 Greenland $ 20,000 2001 est.
57 Portugal $ 19,800 2006 est.
58 Trinidad and Tobago $ 19,800 2006 est.
59 Puerto Rico $ 19,300 2006 est.
60 Barbados $ 18,400 2006 est.
61 Slovakia $ 18,200 2006 est.
62 French Polynesia $ 17,500 2003 est.
63 Hungary $ 17,500 2006 est.
64 Latvia $ 16,000 2006 est.
65 Netherlands Antilles $ 16,000 2004 est.
66 Lithuania $ 15,300 2006 est.
67 Argentina $ 15,200 2006 est.
68 Guam $ 15,000 2005 est.
69 New Caledonia $ 15,000 2003 est.
70 Virgin Islands $ 14,500 2004 est.
71 Oman $ 14,400 2006 est.
72 Poland $ 14,400 2006 est.
73 Saudi Arabia $ 13,800 2006 est.
74 Mauritius $ 13,700 2006 est.
75 Croatia $ 13,400 2006 est.
76 South Africa $ 13,300 2006 est.
77 Malaysia $ 12,800 2006 est.
78 Chile $ 12,600 2006 est.
79 Northern Mariana Islands $ 12,500 2000 est.
80 Costa Rica $ 12,500 2006 est.
81 Libya $ 12,300 2006 est.
82 Russia $ 12,200 2006 est.
83 Turks and Caicos Islands $ 11,500 2002 est.
84 Antigua and Barbuda $ 10,900 2005 est.
85 Botswana $ 10,900 2006 est.
86 Uruguay $ 10,900 2006 est.
87 Bulgaria $ 10,700 2006 est.
88 Mexico $ 10,700 2006 est.
89 World $ 10,200 2006 est.
90 Kazakhstan $ 9,400 2006 est.
91 Thailand $ 9,200 2006 est.
92 Cook Islands $ 9,100 2005 est.
93 Turkey $ 9,100 2006 est.
94 Romania $ 9,100 2006 est.
95 Tunisia $ 8,900 2006 est.
96 Anguilla $ 8,800 2004 est.
97 Brazil $ 8,800 2006 est.
98 Iran $ 8,700 2006 est.
99 Colombia $ 8,600 2006 est.
100 Turkmenistan $ 8,500 2006 est.
101 Belize $ 8,400 2006 est.
102 Dominican Republic $ 8,400 2006 est.
103 Macedonia $ 8,300 2006 est.
104 Panama $ 8,200 2006 est.
105 Saint Kitts and Nevis $ 8,200 2005 est.
106 Belarus $ 8,100 2006 est.
107 China $ 7,800 2006 est.
108 Ukraine $ 7,800 2006 est.
109 Seychelles $ 7,800 2002 est.
110 Algeria $ 7,600 2006 est.
111 Palau $ 7,600 2005 est.
112 Azerbaijan $ 7,500 2006 est.
113 Namibia $ 7,500 2006 est.
114 Venezuela $ 7,200 2006 est.
115 Cyprus $ 7,135 2006 est.
116 Gabon $ 7,100 2006 est.
117 Suriname $ 7,100 2006 est.
118 Saint Pierre and Miquelon $ 7,000 2001 est.
119 Peru $ 6,600 2006 est.
120 Fiji $ 6,200 2006 est.
121 Cape Verde $ 6,000 2006 est.
122 Lebanon $ 5,900 2006 est.
123 American Samoa $ 5,800 2005 est.
124 Niue $ 5,800 2003 est.
125 Albania $ 5,700 2006 est.
126 Armenia $ 5,700 2006 est.
127 Bosnia and Herzegovina $ 5,600 2006 est.
128 Swaziland $ 5,300 2006 est.
129 Jordan $ 5,100 2006 est.
130 Guatemala $ 5,000 2006 est.
131 Philippines $ 5,000 2006 est.
132 Nauru $ 5,000 2005 est.
133 El Salvador $ 4,900 2006 est.
134 Mayotte $ 4,900 2005 est.
135 Guyana $ 4,900 2006 est.
136 Paraguay $ 4,800 2006 est.
137 Saint Lucia $ 4,800 2005 est.
138 Sri Lanka $ 4,700 2006 est.
139 Jamaica $ 4,700 2006 est.
140 Morocco $ 4,600 2006 est.
141 Angola $ 4,500 2006 est.
142 Ecuador $ 4,500 2006 est.
143 Serbia $ 4,400 2005 est.
144 Egypt $ 4,200 2006 est.
145 Cuba $ 4,100 2006 est.
146 Syria $ 4,100 2006 est.
147 Georgia $ 3,900 2006 est.
148 Grenada $ 3,900 2005 est.
149 Maldives $ 3,900 2002 est.
150 Indonesia $ 3,900 2006 est.
151 Dominica $ 3,800 2005 est.
152 Wallis and Futuna $ 3,800 2004 est.
153 Montenegro $ 3,800 2005 est.
154 India $ 3,800 2006 est.
155 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines $ 3,600 2005 est.
156 Montserrat $ 3,400 2002 est.
157 Bolivia $ 3,100 2006 est.
158 Vietnam $ 3,100 2006 est.
159 Honduras $ 3,100 2006 est.
160 Nicaragua $ 3,100 2006 est.
161 Vanuatu $ 2,900 2003 est.
162 Marshall Islands $ 2,900 2005 est.
163 Cambodia $ 2,800 2006 est.
164 Kiribati $ 2,800 2004 est.
165 Ghana $ 2,700 2006 est.
166 Papua New Guinea $ 2,700 2006 est.
167 Lesotho $ 2,700 2006 est.
168 Mauritania $ 2,600 2006 est.
169 Pakistan $ 2,600 2006 est.
170 Cameroon $ 2,500 2006 est.
171 Saint Helena $ 2,500 1998 est.
172 Sudan $ 2,400 2006 est.
173 Bangladesh $ 2,300 2006 est.
174 Micronesia, Federated States of $ 2,300 2005 est.
175 Laos $ 2,200 2006 est.
176 Tonga $ 2,200 2005 est.
177 Guinea $ 2,100 2006 est.
178 Mongolia $ 2,100 2006 est.
179 Samoa $ 2,100 2005 est.
180 Zimbabwe $ 2,100 2006 est.
181 Kyrgyzstan $ 2,100 2006 est.
182 Gambia, The $ 2,000 2006 est.
183 Uzbekistan $ 2,000 2006 est.
184 Moldova $ 2,000 2006 est.
185 Iraq $ 1,900 2006 est.
186 Uganda $ 1,900 2006 est.
187 Burma $ 1,800 2006 est.
188 Haiti $ 1,800 2006 est.
189 Korea, North $ 1,800 2006 est.
190 Senegal $ 1,800 2006 est.
191 Togo $ 1,700 2006 est.
192 Cote d'Ivoire $ 1,600 2006 est.
193 Tuvalu $ 1,600 2002 est.
194 Rwanda $ 1,600 2006 est.
195 Chad $ 1,500 2006 est.
196 West Bank $ 1,500 2005 est.
197 Nepal $ 1,500 2006 est.
198 Nigeria $ 1,500 2006 est.
199 Mozambique $ 1,500 2006 est.
200 Gaza Strip $ 1,500 2003 est.
201 Bhutan $ 1,400 2003 est.
202 Burkina Faso $ 1,400 2006 est.
203 Congo, Republic of the $ 1,400 2006 est.
204 Mali $ 1,300 2006 est.
205 Tajikistan $ 1,300 2006 est.
206 Central African Republic $ 1,200 2006 est.
207 Kenya $ 1,200 2006 est.
208 Sao Tome and Principe $ 1,200 2003 est.
209 Benin $ 1,100 2006 est.
210 Djibouti $ 1,000 2005 est.
211 Ethiopia $ 1,000 2006 est.
212 Zambia $ 1,000 2006 est.
213 Yemen $ 1,000 2006 est.
214 Tokelau $ 1,000 1993 est.
215 Niger $ 1,000 2006 est.
216 Eritrea $ 1,000 2005 est.
217 Liberia $ 900 2006 est.
218 Madagascar $ 900 2006 est.
219 Guinea-Bissau $ 900 2006 est.
220 Sierra Leone $ 900 2006 est.
221 Afghanistan $ 800 2004 est.
222 Tanzania $ 800 2006 est.
223 Timor-Leste $ 800 2005 est.
224 Burundi $ 700 2006 est.
225 Congo, Democratic Republic of the $ 700 2006 est.
226 Solomon Islands $ 600 2005 est.
227 Comoros $ 600 2005 est.
228 Somalia $ 600 2006 est.
229 Malawi $ 600 2006 est.

This page was last updated on 13 December, 2007

[german_reader]

@Lafayette

you ( and anne and all others who have this view ) are right, the German re-unification was poorly managed and the decision to raise the EastGerman wages faster than the productivity was a mistake. But everyone who had a minimum of economic knowledge knew this and Oskar Lafontaine ( former leader of the Socialdemocrats and now leader of the new Leftparty ) and others warned explicitly before this step and the precipitous integration of the former GDR into the WestGerman economy in general. This was a purely political decision. That's the problem when you've a democracy. Politicians must ( should ) follow what the people demand and the majority wanted a fast re-unification and the fast assimilation of incomes.

We had the choice:

- Slower economic assimilation, a more competitive economy in the East but sudden and uncontrolled mass migration from the East to the West, because EastGermans wouldn't wait until the East reaches WestGerman levels - with the corresponding social and economic costs for the West and the complete breakdown of social structures in the East ( Citizens of the former German Democratic Republic were always treated as Germans and had formally the German ( WestGerman ) citizenship long before the re-unification.).

- Or less migration, the relative preservation of social structures in the East, faster growth of incomes and higher financial transfers but a dramatic loss of competitiveness of the EastGerman economy and the resulting high unemployment.

Not an easy choice. And "investors" from WestGermany and other parts of the world ( for example the USA ) contributed their share to the liquidation of the EastGerman industry, cashing in public subsidies and making a fast buck.

Nevertheless, the infrastructure in EastGermany nowadays is really good, better than what I've seen in most parts of the United States. The problem is it's financed mainly from the West and a self-supporting economy in the East will probably need another sixteen years or so.

And finally a few words on one of your favorite hobbyhorses, the "state fixation" of Europeans ( obviously coined by your experiences in France ). My impression is not that Americans are less "state fixated" than Europeans. They are it simply in a different way. While Europeans ( on average ) want a strong, effective welfare state and a government which finds a fair balance between the different forces in the economy, Americans ( on average ) are more concentrated on a powerful government which protects and represents the interests of the United States in the world with military means and a "strong" police state which controls and contains the social outcomes of the "free market" society and reminds many Europeans of a society in a pre-stage of civil war. America is in my view decades behind in building a balanced civilian society.

And the current discussion about tax cuts or government spending to avoid a possible recession or government interventions to prevent the bankruptcy of hundreds of thousands of US homeowners is really not a proof that Americans are less "state fixated" than Europeans.

[cm]

Icarus: As for your suggestion for European welfare states to accept more immigration (and reading between the lines, the contrast to US immigration policy and/or reality), you may want to consider the relations in national land area lending itself to (sustained) inhabitation, farming, and industrial/business development.

European nations have fairly high population densities. Germany's official population is somewhere around 80 millions, the US has 300 millions. Compare the land mass, even when allowing for US desert climate regions that cannot support dense populations.

[german_reader]

@Icarus

my impression is that the only ones who are nowadays impressed by the "American" model are conservative Americans themselves. Nearly all others see it as no longer competitive, unsustainable ( in the financial and ecological sense ) and as a country which has lost its balance. Really not a model.

And your comparison of price levels in Europe and the United States is really not representative.

First of all: All the cities ( Zuerich, Prague, Paris, Vienna, Budapest ) you cite are larger cities and capitals ( with the exception of Zuerich ) with price levels above the national average. It's like measuring the price levels in the US by looking at the price levels in Washington D.C., New York or San Francisco. I think an American coming from rural Idaho or Wyoming to New York or Los Angeles could have the impression that the US is a pretty expensive country.

Second: As others comments have already mentioned, the current exchange rate. We have here in Germany reports that many employees of the US army in Germany, who are paid in dollars, are really struggling to finance their costs of living because the declining dollar is eating up their wages. That's a cyclical problem.

Third: You and many other conservatives concentrate on consumer goods. But for the average person or household ALL costs of living are decisive. And the current Purchasing Power Parity rate between the euro and the dollar ( 1 euro = $1.1-1.15 ) suggest that the cost of living in Europe is on average slightly lower than in the United States. We may pay more for consumer goods but pay less for health care or education.

Fourth: Prices for energy or consumer goods in Europe are higher, because we tax them higher than the US. That's a political decision. We don't see maximal consumption as a natural human right and want consumption more taxed like other forms of ( in this case passive ) economic activity. And taxes are a good way to encourage more sustainable ways of economic behavior and less wasting of natural resources.

And fifth: If you compare the tax levels or living costs in Europe and the United States you should include all forms of expenditures ( public and private ) for a certain good or service and compare them to the quality of the result. America for example pays more for health care than any other nation but has 47 million uninsured ( plus 20-30 million under-insured ) and poorer health care outcomes by most measures. The total costs ( public and private ) for many services in the United States are often as high or higher than in other nations, the results weaker ( for example American high school students rank according to the PISA study of the OECD at the lower end of industrialized nations ).

And not at least the US "model" externalizes many costs in the form of social exclusion, high crime rates, lower life expectancy or higher consumption of natural resources. Europe tries to internalize most of these costs in its system. Comparing only the headline numbers is like comparing apples to oranges. The traditional socio-economic balance sheets often paint a very imprecise picture of the "real" costs.

P.S.

Your hint to Turkish immigrants in Germany is correct. Germany has a problem with the integration of immigrants. We could learn a lot from countries such as Canada, Australia, Switzerland or the Netherlands which seem to do a better ( not perfect ) job in integrating their immigrants. But the United States seems to rank in this regard according to most studies I've seen at the lower end of rich nations, even below Germany. And the share of the foreign born population ( legal + illegal ) in the US is really not extraordinary. So no advantage USA.

[german_reader]

@cm

Compare population dynamics.

Germany and other European nations may be much denser populated than the United States but the United States has a fast growing population while many ( not all ) European nations have stagnant or declining populations. Germany for example needs immigrants to hold its population more or less stable, especially if the birth rate of the native population remains as low as it is ( we "reform" until we die out ). The United States on the other hand has already problems with some resources in some regions ( for example in Arizona, Georgia or California ). That's more a problem of the regional distribution of the US population and the resource wasting life style of Americans than a real over-population. But fearful natures could have the impression that the United States is already over-populated. In summary I would see the US and Europe confronted with similar gains or burdens from immigration.

[Lafayette]

NM: Louis goes home to guaranteed medical and disability assistance. Jack goes home to huge medical bills and not much help at all.

Well, for purposes of exemplifying you're right, NM.

But, let's face it, Jack is going to stay in Paris and get the medical attention he deserves.

I meet the "Jacks who come to Paris" often enough. They are the adventuresome kind - young and on the look out for some "Parisian Fun".

They are a damn sight fewer than decades ago when American multinationals sent American over with the management skills they felt Europeans lacked. The Europeans have come up-to-speed in terms of that particular skill set. So, what is left is niche positions that require a particular talent that is only found stateside.

Jacques in Louisiana is getting away from a sclerotic economic system whereby, despite all the years of university, he is considered unfit to work -- largely because companies, if they hire Jacques cannot fire him without going through a meat grinder.

That is the way France has become under Socialist rule that a highly regulatory labor policy promised to "protect the worker" and has resulted only in increasing the everyone's job precariousness. The Right, until now, didn't have the courage to change it.

And, changing work laws is what they are doing -- though there will be no changes that are even remotely similar to the facility of hire/fire labor regulations stateside. And for good reason, that is, one cannot compare apples and watermelons just because both are fruit. Or, one accepts that both are fruit and the comparison ends there. (So, France and the US are both democracies and any further comparison may be highly specious due to differences in economies-of-scale and cultural values.)

So, in a way, both Jack and Jacques are escaping to another country for exactly the opposite reasons - the Frenchman to the US in order for better work opportunities and the American to France to have better social protection for his family.

THAT typifies the dichotomy between the US and European economic policies. The truth is somewhere in between.

[Lafayette]

mrr: Rank Country GDP - per capita (PPP)

Thanks very much. Local football scores would have been just as helpful to understand the comparative differences ....

[Lafayette]

g_r: I would see the US and Europe confronted with similar gains or burdens from immigration.

Agreed. Both regions will need immigrants. Demographic analyses show that natural population rates will not supply the numbers needed to sustain uniform economic expansion.

But, the question with both regions is "migration to which they must submit" or "migration that they select". The people they are getting are not the quality that they need necessarily. And, unlike the Mareilitos of Cuba, America is no longer in a position to absorb endlessly just anybody. Neither is the EU in a position to find jobs for just any African who manages to get in.

Twenty percent of all trained African doctors work outside of Africa. Where might one think they work? In India? I doubt it. Many in Saudi Arabia and most in the EU or the states.

[Lafayette]

g-r: We have here in Germany reports that many employees of the US army in Germany, who are paid in dollars, are really struggling to finance their costs of living because the declining dollar is eating up their wages.

I know some of the people of which you comment. They have most of their victuals and housing supplied to them "on base" and "in dollars". There's even American fast-food outlets on most large bases and the prices are in dollars.

Yes, those who strike out to assimilate into a German life-style "off-base" have a real problem with the strong euro. I hear the same complaints from Yanks in France and Italy, so the pain is somewhat universal.

And, frankly, this is not the first time that a European currency has had the advantage of the dollar. That situation will change, exchange rates being cyclic.

[Farrar]

What Lafayette and German Reader said.

[Lafayette]

Tuomas: I came rather soon to realize that I perceived the US society to be lacking in what I would call national consciousness. I felt that too many didn't care for "what would be best for all of us", only for what could be good for me-myself and my family.

Personal testimony

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this precious personal testimony. I'm heartened to see that I'm not the only one who had perceived the difference..

It is what I have been insisting in this forum fro some time. That money and the pursuit of personal enrichment is NOT the best raison d'être of an existence.

That surely cultural values must be larger, broader and surely founded on a collective sense of human dignity.

Human dignity is achieved when all share more or less fairly in the wealth generated and no one is left behind in the abject poverty that breeds social dysfunction.

Poverty is not only someone looking for a handout to survive. Poverty is also the working Joe/Jane who cannot make ends meet and whose family must suffer the somber consequences.

[Farrar]

Anne -

Your comparisons of Sarko and Napoleon are innaccurate and annoying.

First of all Napoleon was a genius, and Sarko has a long way to go to prove the same capacity. The comparison is valid in so far as both have/had extraordinary energy and an extraordinary capacity for multi-tasking.

Sarko does not appear to be oriented toward militarism or imperialism. His government will cut the military budget next year.

[Farrar]

Someone brought up the so-called Irish miracle. Unfortunately there are signs that that has run its course. There has been an exaggerated property market boom which seems to be deflating as in the US.

[Lafayette]

g-r: This was a purely political decision. That's the problem when you've a democracy.

You're right; Kohl feared that the East would turn overwhelmingly to the Social Democrats.

A more astute politician would have taken the risk that the East Germans, so tired of Socialism, would support the Christian Democrats -- at least at first to see what that party might do for them. But, what Kohl did was to seduce them with fools-gold.

Eastern Germany had a Window of Opportunity that opened and closed in fairly short fashion.

It is a shame that politicians make a career of politics.

NB: I am surprised that Fontaine would have demonstrated such wisdom. I must take your word for it.

[Lafayette]

Ic: ... the EU makes it tough for a US citizen to emmigrate over and take part in this system.

I can't imagine what prompts this comment. But, it doesn't surprise me of the commenter.

It is amazing the number of Americans who have obtained European nationality quite simply by showing a grandfather of European citizenship. (In Ireland, this is a small business of itself.)

Besides, once you ARE working, your work permit is extended for as long as you live in (at least) France. And, one benefits from the same Health Care coverage whether working or not.

Eat your heart out ... if you can find it.

[Farrar]

I hesitate to mention this, as I prefer not to give ammunition to the trolls, but all is not perfect in the French health care system.

For example, the hospital doctors are now on a Japanese style strike (with arm bands) because they are obliged to work many hours of overtime without getting paid. Their overtime has been counted as a right to compensatory time off, which they can't take because there are not enough Doctors to cover the demand. The mind boggling figure of hours due is something like 23 million ! The government is offering partial payment and negotiations continue.

There are not enough GP's in the hospitals or in private practice. There are two reasons. Payment for GP's is limited to 23 euros per visit so many Drs gravitate to specialization, which is less controlled. Some years back, there were too many Drs, so med school enrolment was limited.

There is also a shortage of nurses for similar reasons.

The govt single payer insurance plan is continually in deficit, requiring new economy plans just about every year.

The problem is fiscal. France has a great credit rating, but has run right up against the EU debt ceiling. Sarko didn't help when he cut taxes for the wealthy as one of his first measures.

But these are the kind of problems faced by medical systems just about everywhere in the developed (excuse the expression) world. And I would much rather be cared for in France than in the US or even the UK. For example, when I see my GP next week I will just walk in without an appointment, wait no more than half an hour, and have his complete attention for as long as needed for only two Euros out of pocket. Fortunately, in spite of relatively low incomes, we still have a lot of Drs dedicated to their professions and to public service.

[Farrar]

There is one area in which the Sarko govt seems to be making progress. Negotiations are now going on with the principal unions toward flex-security. Lafayette especially and I occasionally have pointed out that small and middle sized employers hesitate to hire because they figure they will have a heard time laying off employes if necessary. This is less of a problem for big companies because they have the legal staffs necessary to handle the complications. All employers of course exaggerate their complaints, but there is a problem.

In return for more flexibility in hiring and firing, the govt and the employers will probably have to contribute more toward unemployment insurance and retraining - the so-called Danish model - which appears to be a positive development.

[anne]

"First of all Napoleon was a genius, and Sarko has a long way to go to prove the same capacity. The comparison is valid in so far as both have/had extraordinary energy and an extraordinary capacity for multi-tasking.

"Sarko does not appear to be oriented toward militarism or imperialism. His government will cut the military budget next year."

Napoleon was of course a reflection of a crazily self-deructive and destructive France, a bumbling immoralist who spread and trailed misery from Egypt to Spain and Russia and through France. That the wanton imperial-colonial destruction of peoples from Egypt to Russia at the expense of Franch families can be still found genius in any quarter is a mark of how crazily wedded we are to the immorality of war for the sake of war.

Nicholas Sarkozy has been vacationing the world threatening in the wake peoples from Iran to Syria to Iraq, always in the name of America because surely and fortunately France will be no real threat anywhere, while thinking how to bully French workers and immigrants.

Vivat!

[anne]

Farrar:

"Some years back, there were too many Drs, so med school enrolment was limited."

Limiting medical school enrolment, by the way, beyond the interest in medical education of capable students whether in Canada or France or elsewhere is always a drastic mistake. The idea of turning students away from medical education simply reflects a social limit on what humaneness should count for.

[anne]

Imagine the genius of Napoleon, driven by French phantoms to local destruction and self-destruction of French armies from Egypt through Russia. Crowned everywhere however and loving crowns which can be so vicariously thrilling that to this day there are evidently those French who do not understand what imperial destruction and self-destruction amounted to. Me, though, I would adore being an Emperor-ess. On to Moscow (in summer).

[anne]

"I used to pay close to 45% tax when I lived in CA and ran my own business."

I would suggest, like, having an accountant who can, like, account (who can advise organizing a business and portfolio properly), though I am completely pleased with and congratulate anyone who has been contentedly successful.

[anne]

By the way, I am definitely not advocating raising federal taxes. Quite the opposite, especially at this time, and I would like to have federal-state revenue sharing to assist states. Restructuring federal taxes in a different political climate will be important, and given the tragedy of military spending which even beyond what happens in Iraq and Afghanistan is supposed by candidates from Barack Obama to John McCain to include large increases in American forces, tax increase will in time be necessary.

[anne]

"First of all Napoleon was a genius...."

Beyond satire, and assuming that moral understanding was generally more deficient in 1800 than in 1900 and 2000, since I assume we have grown in moral understanding, Napoleon was a definitive reflection of a France that needed to be morally overcome and not a France to admired. What then does the genius of self-destruction amount to, even were there in the beginning genius in potential?

When thinking of an energetic multi-taking Nicholas Sarkozy, I only think of a Sarkozy juggling women, which is harder than juggling cigar boxes especially on the women.

[Lafayette]

anne: When thinking of an energetic multi-taking Nicholas Sarkozy, I only think of a Sarkozy juggling women, which is harder than juggling cigar boxes especially on the women

I won't make any apology for any politician, and particularly not for Sarkozy. I do think, given the present condition of its political class, he's the best person for the job in France today.

That does not excuse him from his overt mediatization of both his ex-wife and his new one -- for which the French are laying into him thickly.

The French were excluded from the fact that Mitterand had a child of a mistress. And, when they knew, they didn't give a damn. (The French were horrified when Clinton was laid into for the Monica affair. They felt, correctly, it was a matter between him and his wife and certainly not politics.)

He seems to think the French will take a liking to an American style presidency with all the media hype and a touch of glamour here and there.

France is far less prudish about extra-marital affairs and the figures show that just about as many women are unfaithful to their husbands as vice-versa. Sex is something personal, so when a President goes out of his way to employ an already highly mediatized beauty to his own mediatic ends, they blanch.

Frankly, he seems to be displaying his personal embarrassment at having been dumped by his ex- for another man. Carlo Bruni and his ex- look remarkably similar.

In fact, if you saw footage of his recent visit to Petra in Lebanon, with Bruni's son on his shoulders, what is stunning is the fact that the press was not at all pleased that the young boy was covering his eyes so as not to be seen.

Obviously a smart four-year old, if he understood he wanted no part of that charade. And, the mother came to his rescue by claiming him back.

Nicky-boy did himself a lotta harm.

PS: His ex- is in a court battle to prevent the publication of a book where she (supposedly) called him a "twit surrounded by macho twits" and "not fit to be president". She denies ever having made these remarks.

[anne]

For fairness sake, Napoleon is gone while we are even now glorying in dropping 40,000 pounds of bombs in 10 minutes on an Iraqi town 5 years after invading Iraq for no reason. So much for the illusion moral growth, I suppose. Hopefully the French having learned would be incapable of this beyond any French President, though possibly the only difference is in military capability.

[anne]

Thank you, Lafayette. As for bitterness, all I find is a "twit surrounded by macho twits." When we need leaders in diplomacy and leaders for peace, we are not finding them from Japan to Germany, beyond France.

[AP18]

"Limiting medical school enrolment, by the way, beyond the interest in medical education of capable students whether in Canada or France or elsewhere is always a drastic mistake. The idea of turning students away from medical education simply reflects a social limit on what humaneness should count for."

Yet you support unions? Suppressing entrance into the profession is what professional associations do (Dean Baker has recently had a string of good articles on the subject). It surely isn't a social limit based on humaneness, since the majority of Canadians would like to see more and cheaper doctors, and there are many capable people who would like to be doctors, or who are trained doctors from foreign countries struggling to have their credentials recognized.

[anne]

Limiting medical school enrolment beyond the interest in medical education of capable students whether in Canada or France or elsewhere is always a drastic humanitarian mistake.

[Pitt]

Walk around Zurich, Prague, Paris, Vienna, Budapest. See how much a decent meal costs. See how much a pair of shoes costs. Walk into a grocery store, and see how much goods costs.

Considering that your first city (Zurich) is one of the most expensive in Europe and your second (Prague) is far cheaper than most American cities, I think you're making a claim the evidence does not support.

I was in Prague a few months ago (HIGHLY recommend it), and lunch was rarely over 100CZK, dinner 200CZK, assuming main course, beer, and coffee or dessert. That's US$5-10 for a full meal in a restaurant, which is substantially cheaper than I've found in the US. Unless you went into a MacDonald's in Prague - their prices were insane, and appeared to be solely to fleece tourists.

It's the same for your other goods - a friend of mine wanted to buy shoes while he was in Prague, since it's cheaper. I went to a supermarket simply because I wanted to check prices, and certain things were more expensive - dairy and meat are more expensive all across Europe, at a guess because of the massive corn subsidies in the US - but when I checked the prices of the staple foods I usually buy, they were reasonable. It's simply not true that living in Prague is expensive compared to living in the US.

Even in the rich countries, I didn't find prices outragious. Grenoble, Bologna, Florence, Ravenna, and even Edinburgh were fairly reasonable.

It's true that there are some cities that are expensive to live in - Zurich is notorious, as are London and Dublin - but then the same is true in the US (NY? SF?). In Dublin, for example, where I also spent time recently, prices are about the same number as in the US, but in euro instead of dollars. Since locals don't have to do the exchange rate, though, it cancels out with their wages being in euro.

Basically, you're claiming that Europeans have vastly less purchasing power than Americans, when analyses of PPP (purchasing power parity) demonstrate a much narrower difference. PPP GDP per capita is ~30% different, but due to the differing wealth distributions, median PPP income is substantially closer, and it's not nearly as much of a difference as you're suggesting.

At a guess, your view is heavily skewed by the weakness of the US$ against the Euro. That's not something Europeans have to contend with.

[Farrar]

Anne -
Applying the characterization of genius to Napoleon (or anyone) does not imply moral approval.
I agree that his military campaigns should easily tip the balance of our judgement to an overall negative.
But we Anglo Saxons often overlook the many positive accomplishments of Napoleonic government domestically. The French feel this is a result of (understandable) British propaganda during the Napoleonic wars, which continues to influence our historical judgement. I know my British friends are often surprised when they visit Napoleon's tomb and read the list of his accomplishments.

[Lafayette]

pitt: In Dublin, for example, where I also spent time recently, prices are about the same number as in the US, but in euro instead of dollars. Since locals don't have to do the exchange rate, though, it cancels out with their wages being in euro.

No it doesn't. The euro is at a premium of about 40%% to the dollar. And, dollar denominated salaries in the US are NOT the same as euro denominated salaries in the EU -- not by a long shot. The average wage in the US is about 40% higher than in Europe.

Which means nothing, really, unless cost-of-living is taken into account. And, would it be taken in to account, the US would probably come out ahead in terms of recurrent costs (housing, food, transportation, etc.) Where it loses is likely on non-recurrent costs, such as Health Care and Higher Education. Few studies take such costs into consideration.

What do you mean by "prices are about the same"? Denominated in euros or exchanged into dollars?

That makes all the difference. For every percentage decrease in the dollar versus the euro, Airbus looses a 100 million dollars in revenue. So, on global trade and commerce, the exchange rate is really hurting.

[Lafayette]

Farrar: I agree that his military campaigns should easily tip the balance of our judgement to an overall negative.

You (plural) are corresponding about an historical figure of which, in fact, you know very little. He was not born French, but Italian. He left Corsica to make a career in the French Army. His first campaigns, that made him a notoriety, were in Italy. In fact, the use of his family to run Italy was the first example of a Mafia family there.

He was a complex character and a workaholic. What he did for France was much larger than just his war making. The following is from France.com about him:

Napoléon instituted several lasting reforms in the educational, judicial, financial and administrational system. His set of civil laws, the Napoleonic Code or Civil Code, has importance to this day in many countries. The Code was largely the work of Jean Jacques Régis de Cambacérès, who held the office Second Consul under Bonaparte from 1799 to 1804.

The Napoleonic Code, btw, is still in usage to some extent in Louisiana ...

Yes, he was a megalomaniac who thought he could bring Republican values to Europe by dominating it militarily. Let's not forget that he was an ardent supporter of the French revolution and its values. If he walked into the rubble of that Revolution to clean up the mess, it was because the country was tipping into Civil War and, in fact, to save it from those who wished to restore the monarchy.

Even though the Bourbon lineage was extinct -- the Revolutionaries having guillotined Louis XVI (as well as Marie-Antoinette) and let his surviving son rot to death in prison at the age of nine years).

That Napoleion became its Emperor is probably because he realized the French, at that time, were incapable of governing themselves democratically. Of course, that is my personal interpretation.

A good book worth reading on Napoleon is by Max Gallo (MacMillan Publishing, ISBN 0330490036). Gallo, an ex-communist, gives a well balanced rendition of the man, both his imperial greatness and his human foibles.

[disinterested observer]

Actually, Lafayette, on a PPP adjusted basis the average wage in the US is well below the average wage in a lot of European countries - look at Table O.2 in http://www.oecd.org/document/17/0,3343,en_2649_34533_38148433_1_1_1_1,00.html#Table_O_1

Ths shows average labour costs in PPPs, but if you then subtract the total tax wedge you will get average take-home pay, which is higher in many Europen countries.

[anne]

Disinterested Observer:

Actually, on a PPP adjusted basis the average wage in the US is well below the average wage in a lot of European countries - look at Table O.2 in

http://www.oecd.org/document/17/0,3343,en_2649_34533_38148433_1_1_1_1,00.html#Table_O_1

This is important to remember. Thank you.

[anne]

Here is Emerson's sympathetic portrait, which those who most appreciate Emerson finding compelling:

http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/e/emerson/ralph_waldo/e53r/chapter7.html

1850

Napoleon or, The Man of the World
By Ralph Waldo Emerson

AMONG the eminent persons of the nineteenth century, Bonaparte is far the best known and the most powerful; and owes his predominance to the fidelity with which he expresses the tone of thought and belief, the aims of the masses of active and cultivated men. It is Swedenborg's theory that every organ is made up of homogeneous particles; or as it is sometimes expressed, every whole is made of similars; that is, the lungs are composed of infinitely small lungs; the liver, of infinitely small livers; the kidney, of little kidneys, etc. Following this analogy, if any man is found to carry with him the power and affections of vast numbers, if Napoleon is France, if Napoleon is Europe, it is because the people whom he sways are little Napoleons.

In our society there is a standing antagonism between the conservative and the democratic classes; between those who have made their fortunes, and the young and the poor who have fortunes to make; between the interests of dead labor,- that is, the labor of hands long ago still in the grave, which labor is now entombed in money stocks, or in land and buildings owned by idle capitalists,- and the interests of living labor, which seeks to possess itself of land and buildings and money stocks. The first class is timid, selfish, illiberal, hating innovation, and continually losing numbers by death. The second class is selfish also, encroaching, bold, self-relying, always outnumbering the other and recruiting its numbers every hour by births. It desires to keep open every avenue to the competition of all, and to multiply avenues: the class of business men in America, in England, in France and throughout Europe; the class of industry and skill. Napoleon is its representative. The instinct of active, brave, able men, throughout the middle class everywhere, has pointed out Napoleon as the incarnate Democrat. He had their virtues and their vices; above all, he had their spirit or aim. That tendency is material, pointing at a sensual success and employing the richest and most various means to that end; conversant with mechanical powers, highly intellectual, widely and accurately learned and skilful, but subordinating all intellectual and spiritual forces into means to a material success. To be the rich man, is the end. "God has granted," says the Koran, "to every people a prophet in its own tongue." Paris and London and New York, the spirit of commerce, of money and material power, were also to have their prophet; and Bonaparte was qualified and sent.

Every one of the million readers of anecdotes or memoirs or lives of Napoleon, delights in the page, because he studies in it his own history. Napoleon is thoroughly modern, and, at the highest point of his fortunes, has the very spirit of the newspapers. He is no saint,- to use his own word, "no capuchin," and he is no hero, in the high sense. The man in the street finds in him the qualities and powers of other men in the street. He finds him, like himself, by birth a citizen, who, by very intelligible merits, arrived at such a commanding position that he could indulge all those tastes which the common man possesses but is obliged to conceal and deny: good society, good books, fast travelling, dress, dinners, servants without number, personal weight, the execution of his ideas, the standing in the attitude of a benefactor to all persons about him, the refined enjoyments of pictures, statues, music, palaces and conventional honors,- precisely what is agreeable to the heart of every man in the nineteenth century, this powerful man possessed.

It is true that a man of Napoleon's truth of adaptation to the mind of the masses around him, becomes not merely representative but actually a monopolizer and usurper of other minds. Thus Mirabeau plagiarized every good thought, every good word that was spoken in France. Dumont relates that he sat in the gallery of the Convention and heard Mirabeau make a speech. It struck Dumont that he could fit it with a peroration, which he wrote in pencil immediately, and showed it to Lord Elgin, who sat by him. Lord Elgin approved it, and Dumont, in the evening, showed it to Mirabeau. Mirabeau read it, pronounced it admirable, and declared he would incorporate it into his harangue to-morrow, to the Assembly. "It is impossible," said Dumont, "as, unfortunately, I have shown it to Lord Elgin." "If you have shown it to Lord Elgin and to fifty persons beside, I shall still speak it to-morrow": and he did speak it, with much effect, at the next day's session. For Mirabeau, with his overpowering personality, felt that these things which his presence inspired were as much his own as if he had said them, and that his adoption of them gave them their weight. Much more absolute and centralizing was the successor to Mirabeau's popularity and to much more than his predominance in France. Indeed, a man of Napoleon's stamp almost ceases to have a private speech and opinion. He is so largely receptive, and is so placed, that he comes to be a bureau for all the intelligence, wit and power of the age and country. He gains the battle; he makes the code; he makes the system of weights and measures; he levels the Alps; he builds the road. All distinguished engineers, savans, statists, report to him: so likewise do all good heads in every kind: he adopts the best measures, sets his stamp on them, and not these alone, but on every happy and memorable expression. Every sentence spoken by Napoleon and every line of his writing, deserves reading, as it is the sense of France.

Bonaparte was the idol of common men because he had in transcendent degree the qualities and powers of common men....

[anne]

Max Gallo actually wrote a 4 volume biography of Napoleon, that was only finished in 2005, and since I have never read a contemporary French biography of Napoleon I will look to Gallo in coming weeks. The prejudice I have had in reading history comes from Tolstoy, and dictates reading beyond a personified history. I have then separated the personal history of Napoleon from that of France. This may be, as Emerson suggests, at least a somewhat contradictory way of reading if Napoleon reflected French thinking.

[anne]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/world/europe/13france.html

January 13, 2008

French Cabinet Position Not Enough? Then Try Mayor.
By ELAINE SCIOLINO

PARIS — The justice minister wants to be a mayor. So does the finance minister. And the culture minister. And the government spokesman.

The races for France’s municipal elections in March have not even started, but nearly two-thirds of the 33 members of President Nicolas Sarkozy’s cabinet have already transformed themselves into part-time politicians, declaring that they deserve to be the next mayors and deputy mayors of France.

Some, like the education minister, already are mayors and are running for re-election. Others, like the budget minister, are former mayors who want their old jobs back.

“It’s a way for a minister to stay in contact with the soil,” said Xavier Bertrand, the labor minister, who wants to be deputy mayor of St.-Quentin, a town in northeast France. “It’s much better than looking at polls.”

In a peculiarly French practice called “accumulation of mandates,” certain government officials are allowed to hold more than one elected office. The minister-mayor phenomenon was largely eliminated as unseemly during the era of President Jacques Chirac (who had served simultaneously as prime minister and mayor of Paris). But it has been proudly revived by Mr. Sarkozy as a way to expand his government’s influence.

It is also a way to keep power at the top. “You have to understand that France is still a sort of elected monarchy,” said André Santini, a junior minister who is running for re-election in the Paris suburb of Issy-les-Moulineaux, where he has been mayor for 28 years.

Critics call the minister-mayor practice an undemocratic, outdated, power-grabbing ploy that raises conflicts of interest and smacks of carpetbagging. And for city halls around France, it would encourage already problematic absenteeism, because cabinet positions are supposed to be full-time jobs....

[anne]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/fashion/13bruni.html

January 13, 2008

The French President's Lover
By GUY TREBAY

MAN trap, serial heart-wrecker, rocker arm candy, photogenic cipher, arrogant heiress, polling gimmick — the woman who appears likely to become the first lady of France has been called a lot of things lately. The last thing anyone would have thought of is that she's a catch.

Barely three months after his divorce from his wife, Cécilia, the polarizing but media-savvy French president Nicolas Sarkozy has become a principal in a hyper-publicized romance that has even the normally high-minded French press gossiping about the details in goosey tabloid terms. See the lovers moon around the pyramids and Euro Disney! Watch the Saudis grapple with the free-living ways of the French! Can Indian officials invent protocol to accommodate a First Sleepover Pal? Will the French public accept a woman who espouses polyandry, has a son by a philosopher whose father she once also dated, and who has been romantically linked with Eric Clapton and Mick Jagger? Will a whirlwind courtship and marriage ultimately bring Mr. Sarkozy's approval ratings up from the dumps?

Because model is so often used as a synonym for moron, few have stopped to consider that, in pure résumé terms, Ms. Bruni may be better equipped than many for a gig at Élysée Palace. For starters, she is a stepdaughter of an Italian tire magnate and classical composer, Alberto Bruni Tedeschi, who is married to her mother, Marisa Borini, a concert pianist. She is rich and well educated (in France, where her family moved in the 1970s to escape a wave of kidnappings in Italy) and speaks three languages.

After she aged out of her career as one of the most highly paid models of the 1990s, with campaigns for Dior and Chanel and some 250 magazine covers to her credit, she became a musician, a transition less surprising when one considers her heritage and past relationships. Her first album of breathy emotive music, set mostly to acoustic guitar was released in 2003 and quickly became a success. "Quelqu'un m'a dit" ("Someone Told Me") produced a best-selling single, sold over a million copies in France, another 300,000 outside the country and in 2004 garnered Ms. Bruni the French equivalent of a Grammy as the country's best female vocalist....

[anne]

The question I need to consider from my times in France, and reading, is whether the French need a heroic sense of Napoleon to understand what it means to be French. Does France have a collective or national sense beyond heroic symbolism? I would immediately and always have answered, yes, but there I realize is always in France a nostalgia for the heroic symbol.

[Lafayette]

Emerson: Bonaparte was the idol of common men because he had in transcendent degree the qualities and powers of common men....

Thanks, anne. It was a bit wordy, but just fine.

I have seen innumerable debates, both pro and con, regarding Napoleon. To such a point that I must think his left half is or was angelic and his right half devilish.

Perhaps he was just human, with his momentary greatness and redundant weaknesses. In the thick of battle where he cared not if the rifle balls whistled about him -- his guard had to continually pull him back from the thick of a battle because he could not accept not knowing what was happening and making battle decisions immediately. He was particularly fond of women and promised always more than he could deliver. He wanted so much to please them, or use them, whichever the circumstance.

anne: This may be, as Emerson suggests, at least a somewhat contradictory way of reading if Napoleon reflected French thinking.

Hmmn …. dunno about that.

Emerson was writing from the perspective of the mid-nineteenth century.

Napoleon was such a large historical figure that he set an example that many could not follow. So, they imitate him. DeVillepin, the last Prime Minister of France, is so fond of him that he has both a portrait and a bust in his office.

To hear DeVillepin perorate, one would think he IS Napoleon (except that he is tall and handsome with a striking white mane). My point is this: There is a way of speaking that is Napoleonic and it impresses by its forcefulness whatever it may be that one is saying.

The difference, however, being this: Napoleon had something to say. Most politicians today, and not only in France, haven’t much new under the sun to tell us.

Which, of course, doesn’t stop them -- even for a moment.

[Pitt]

dollar denominated salaries in the US are NOT the same as euro denominated salaries in the EU

Which isn't even what I was talking about (I was pointing out that the painful exchange rate that may have skewed icarus's impressions is irrelevant to locals), but since you bring it up it's interesting to note that you're wrong - Irish wages are higher than US wages, and even moreso in Dublin.

US median wage is $14.61 (http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#b00-0000), whereas the Irish median wage is 16.04euro (http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/other/12/02/1202waterford.html).

So a Dubliner paying 20euro for groceries is spending less of his paycheque than an American spending $20. And of course that doesn't even take into account perks like health insurance.

Interestingly, if you take Disinterested's link and compute the non-tax-wedge portion of labour costs, you get very similar numbers for the US ($24.9k), Germany ($25.7k), France ($24.8k), and Ireland ($25.3k), all in purchasing-power-adjusted dollars.

Since the tax wedge represents "the total tax wedge between total labour costs to the employer and the corresponding net take-home pay", this residual is the takehome PPP wage of a typical worker. For a normal person, then, the US offers absolutely no benefit in terms of purchasing power.

[german_reader]

@Pitt

perhaps you should add that the average wage in Europe includes more benefits ( vacancies, paid sick leave, maternity leave ... ) than the average wage in the US. And Europeans are working in most cases much shorter hours than Americans.

Median ( 50% limit ) hourly wage in 2004 ( not 2006 as above ) in Germany was 14.50 euros ( $15.95 PPP, $16.24 PPP WestGermany, $11.80 PPP EastGermany, source: Institut fuer Arbeit und Technik Gelsenkirchen, Deutsches Intstitut fuer Wirtschaftsforschung Berlin ). The mean seems to be around 16.80 euros ( $18.48 PPP ).

If Americans have higher wages it's because they are working longer hours, not because their hourly wage is higher. And some professions like doctors and other qualified health care staff, lawyers, managers or IT are indeed privileged in the US.

And at least in Switzerland, Denmark or Norway the total employment level is much higher than in the US. In the UK, Ireland, Sweden, Austria, Finland or Germany ( WestGermany ) it comes very close.

[Lafayette]

It's nice to see some "heads high" exchange on this point. Instead of the usual mumbo-jumbo.

Good stuff.

[german_reader]

Just for fun a few additional numbers. As always you find different statistics for all and anything.

Median hourly wage without benefits Germany ( 2004 ):
14.29 euros / $15.72 PPP, WestGermany 14.95 euros/ $16.45 PPP, EastGermany 11.25 euros / $12.38 PPP.

Source: "Wachsender Niedriglohnsektor in Deutschland - Sind Mindestloehne sinnvoll?", DIW Berlin, Berlin 2006, page 3.

Mean hourly wage without benefits for all employees Germany second quarter 2007:
18.21 euros / $20.03 PPP WestGermany, 13.05 euros / $14.36 PPP EastGermany.

Mean hourly wage without benefits full-time employees:
18.79 euros / $20.67 PPP WestGermany, 13.27 euros / $14.60 PPP EastGermany.

Mean hourly wage without benefits part-time employees:
14.56 euros / $16.00 PPP WestGermany, 11.79 euros / $12.97 PPP EastGermany.

Source: Federal Agency of Statistics Germany (link in German):

http://www.destatis.de/jetspeed/portal/cms/Sites/destatis/Internet/DE/Content/Statistiken/VerdiensteArbeitskosten/Bruttoverdienste/Aktuell,templateId=renderPrint.psml

[Lafayette]

Hourly wage means little in terms of comparison for purposes of understanding disposable income. Annual hours worked differ enormously around Europe, as g_r has noted.

Annual income is a better figure. Of course, annual net (of taxes) income is the best.