links for 2008-08-20

• Profit-maximization as the sole goal of a corporation - Creative Capitalism
• Top 50 Business Professor Blogs - Biz.Edu
• McGame Theory - Economists for Obama
• Many children left behind? Textbooks and test scores in Kenya - Vox EU
• The 'Great Moderation' in an IS/LM Model - Macro and Other Market Musings
• Obama's Geek Economist - Technology Review
• Chameleon Has a Short Life and an Interesting Life History - NYTimes.com
• Misreading the Inflation Data - BusinessWeek
• Did the Stimulus Package Actually Stimulate? - macroblog

Comments

[wjd123]

"Obama's Geek Economist"

Generations of the best and the brightest have come and gone in Washington, DC, usually without effecting significant changes. In this, Goolsbee may or may not turn out to be exceptional. Nevertheless, he is something different in a presidential campaign: he is part of a generation of economists who have focused on the Internet, network effects, behavioral economics, and neuro­economics. Whether Obama wins or loses, this is the first time a U.S. presidential candidate has had a chief economic advisor whose outlook and skills are those of a 21st-century economist.

Yuck, too much psychology and not enough sociology.

[anne]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/opinion/20gorbachev.html?ref=opinion&pagewanted=print

August 20, 2008

Russia Never Wanted a War
By MIKHAIL GORBACHEV

Moscow

THE acute phase of the crisis provoked by the Georgian forces’ assault on Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, is now behind us. But how can one erase from memory the horrifying scenes of the nighttime rocket attack on a peaceful town, the razing of entire city blocks, the deaths of people taking cover in basements, the destruction of ancient monuments and ancestral graves?

Russia did not want this crisis. The Russian leadership is in a strong enough position domestically; it did not need a little victorious war. Russia was dragged into the fray by the recklessness of the Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili. He would not have dared to attack without outside support. Once he did, Russia could not afford inaction.

The decision by the Russian president, Dmitri Medvedev, to now cease hostilities was the right move by a responsible leader. The Russian president acted calmly, confidently and firmly. Anyone who expected confusion in Moscow was disappointed.

The planners of this campaign clearly wanted to make sure that, whatever the outcome, Russia would be blamed for worsening the situation. The West then mounted a propaganda attack against Russia, with the American news media leading the way.

The news coverage has been far from fair and balanced, especially during the first days of the crisis. Tskhinvali was in smoking ruins and thousands of people were fleeing — before any Russian troops arrived. Yet Russia was already being accused of aggression; news reports were often an embarrassing recitation of the Georgian leader’s deceptive statements.

It is still not quite clear whether the West was aware of Mr. Saakashvili’s plans to invade South Ossetia, and this is a serious matter. What is clear is that Western assistance in training Georgian troops and shipping large supplies of arms had been pushing the region toward war rather than peace.

If this military misadventure was a surprise for the Georgian leader’s foreign patrons, so much the worse. It looks like a classic wag-the-dog story.

Mr. Saakashvili had been lavished with praise for being a staunch American ally and a real democrat — and for helping out in Iraq. Now America’s friend has wrought disorder, and all of us — the Europeans and, most important, the region’s innocent civilians — must pick up the pieces.

Those who rush to judgment on what’s happening in the Caucasus, or those who seek influence there, should first have at least some idea of this region’s complexities. The Ossetians live both in Georgia and in Russia. The region is a patchwork of ethnic groups living in close proximity. Therefore, all talk of “this is our land,” “we are liberating our land,” is meaningless. We must think about the people who live on the land.

The problems of the Caucasus region cannot be solved by force. That has been tried more than once in the past two decades, and it has always boomeranged.

What is needed is a legally binding agreement not to use force. Mr. Saakashvili has repeatedly refused to sign such an agreement, for reasons that have now become abundantly clear.

The West would be wise to help achieve such an agreement now. If, instead, it chooses to blame Russia and re-arm Georgia, as American officials are suggesting, a new crisis will be inevitable. In that case, expect the worst.

In recent days, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and President Bush have been promising to isolate Russia. Some American politicians have threatened to expel it from the Group of 8 industrialized nations, to abolish the NATO-Russia Council and to keep Russia out of the World Trade Organization.

These are empty threats. For some time now, Russians have been wondering: If our opinion counts for nothing in those institutions, do we really need them? Just to sit at the nicely set dinner table and listen to lectures?

Indeed, Russia has long been told to simply accept the facts. Here’s the independence of Kosovo for you. Here’s the abrogation of the Antiballistic Missile Treaty, and the American decision to place missile defenses in neighboring countries. Here’s the unending expansion of NATO. All of these moves have been set against the backdrop of sweet talk about partnership. Why would anyone put up with such a charade?

There is much talk now in the United States about rethinking relations with Russia. One thing that should definitely be rethought: the habit of talking to Russia in a condescending way, without regard for its positions and interests.

Our two countries could develop a serious agenda for genuine, rather than token, cooperation. Many Americans, as well as Russians, understand the need for this. But is the same true of the political leaders? ...

[anne]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/opinion/20gorbachev.html?ref=opinion&pagewanted=print

THE acute phase of the crisis provoked by the Georgian forces’ assault on Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, is now behind us. But how can one erase from memory the horrifying scenes of the nighttime rocket attack on a peaceful town, the razing of entire city blocks, the deaths of people taking cover in basements, the destruction of ancient monuments and ancestral graves?

Russia did not want this crisis. The Russian leadership is in a strong enough position domestically; it did not need a little victorious war. Russia was dragged into the fray by the recklessness of the Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili. He would not have dared to attack without outside support. Once he did, Russia could not afford inaction.

The decision by the Russian president, Dmitri Medvedev, to now cease hostilities was the right move by a responsible leader. The Russian president acted calmly, confidently and firmly. Anyone who expected confusion in Moscow was disappointed.

The planners of this campaign clearly wanted to make sure that, whatever the outcome, Russia would be blamed for worsening the situation. The West then mounted a propaganda attack against Russia, with the American news media leading the way....

-- MIKHAIL GORBACHEV

[Right!]

[anne]

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gG59gP

August 19, 2008

There is no possible justification for Russia's actions. Russian troops have yet to begin the withdrawal required by the cease-fire signed by their president, and we are hearing reports of Russian atrocities: burning wheat fields, brutal killing, and the destruction of Georgia's infrastructure and military assets.

-- Barack Obama

Rubbish.

[anne]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/opinion/20friedman.html?ref=opinion&pagewanted=print

August 20, 2008

What Did We Expect?
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

President Mikheil Saakashvili of Georgia gave Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin an excuse to exercise his iron fist.

Rubbish.

[IS/LMNOP]

Then again, maybe they are taking credit for something they didn't have anything to do with. Supply increased due to tech/efficiency/trade/fall of Communism. Instead of allowing the median person to reap a higher standard of living from the improved efficiency, money creation redistributed virtually the entire gain to the lucky few who first received the new money, and created dangerous debt bubbles to boot.

[wjd123]

Anne,

If you don't like these explanations how about the ones at Crooked Timber under "Territorial integrity norms"

http://crookedtimber.org/

or this one: [you'll find the link at the end of "Territorial integrity norms"]

From an article in the Washington Post, "Black Sea Watershed" by Ronald D. Asmus and Richard Holbrooke:

Russia's goal is not simply, as it claims, restoring the status quo in South Ossetia. It wants regime change in Georgia. It has opened a second front in the other disputed Georgian territory, Abkhazia, just south of Sochi. But its greatest goal is to replace Saakashvili -- a man Vladimir Putin despises -- with a president who would be more subject to Moscow's influence. As Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt pointed out Saturday, Moscow's rationale for invading has parallels to the darkest chapters of Europe's history. Having issued passports to tens of thousands of Abkhazians and South Ossetians, Moscow now claims it must intervene to protect them -- a tactic reminiscent of one used by Nazi Germany at the start of World War II.

Moscow seeks to roll back democratic breakthroughs on its borders, to destroy any chance of further NATO or E.U. enlargement and to reestablish a sphere of hegemony over its neighbors. By trying to destroy a democratic, pro-Western Georgia, Moscow is sending a message that, in its part of the world, being close to Washington and the West does not pay.

This moment could well mark the end of an era in Europe during which realpolitik and spheres of influence were supposed to be replaced by new cooperative norms and a country's right to choose its own path. Hopes for a more liberal Russia under President Dmitry Medvedev will need to be reexamined. His justification for this invasion reads more like Brezhnev than Gorbachev. While no one wants a return to Cold War-style confrontation, Moscow's behavior poses a direct challenge to European and international order.

[Don Quijote]

This moment could well mark the end of an era in Europe during which realpolitik and spheres of influence were supposed to be replaced by new cooperative norms and a country's right to choose its own path.

If a politician actually believes this bullshit, he is to stupid and naive to be elected town dog catcher.

[anne]

"Having issued passports to tens of thousands of Abkhazians and South Ossetians, Moscow now claims it must intervene to protect them -- a tactic reminiscent of one used by Nazi Germany at the start of World War II.

"Moscow seeks to roll back democratic breakthroughs on its borders, to destroy any chance of further NATO or E.U. enlargement and to reestablish a sphere of hegemony over its neighbors. By trying to destroy a democratic, pro-Western Georgia, Moscow is sending a message...."

Vile lying; but lie on, lie on, lie on, improve the lying by lying more.

[anne]

"Hopes for a more liberal Russia under President Dmitry Medvedev will need to be reexamined. His justification for this invasion reads more like Brezhnev than Gorbachev."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/opinion/20gorbachev.html?ref=opinion&pagewanted=print

THE acute phase of the crisis provoked by the Georgian forces’ assault on Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, is now behind us. But how can one erase from memory the horrifying scenes of the nighttime rocket attack on a peaceful town, the razing of entire city blocks, the deaths of people taking cover in basements, the destruction of ancient monuments and ancestral graves?

Russia did not want this crisis. The Russian leadership is in a strong enough position domestically; it did not need a little victorious war. Russia was dragged into the fray by the recklessness of the Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili. He would not have dared to attack without outside support. Once he did, Russia could not afford inaction.

The decision by the Russian president, Dmitri Medvedev, to now cease hostilities was the right move by a responsible leader. The Russian president acted calmly, confidently and firmly. Anyone who expected confusion in Moscow was disappointed.

The planners of this campaign clearly wanted to make sure that, whatever the outcome, Russia would be blamed for worsening the situation. The West then mounted a propaganda attack against Russia, with the American news media leading the way....

-- MIKHAIL GORBACHEV

[hari]

Haretz (Israel) 19 Aug -

Israeli military (IDF) trainers were along side US training Georgian forces in modern weapons apparently supplied by Israel. Israeli/Us trainers escaped the onslaught and were removed by US military.

Now, today, Syria has taken a serious political step.
Pres. Asad is officially visitng Moscow to discuss purchase of Russian weapons to defend Syrian boarders - Asad says - in light of revelation of IDF trainers involved in OS invasion by Georgia.

[hari]

Nato Council meeting yesterday was unable to pass a condemnation of Russian invasion of Georgia and, after agreement with Sarkosy, not upholding the ceasefire conditions and evacuating Georgian sovereign territory.

Although Rice was strongly supported by UK, Poland and Baltic States, Germany and France refused to disengage with the political need for cooperation with Russia at this critical juncture.

So the final declaration is a fudge to say that Nato-Russia Council will henceforth be suspended....

[hari]

Carl Bildt/FM/Sweden and his Blog -

I've challenged the honesty of CB with regard to the facts on the ground in OS/Georgia invasion Aug 6-7th and his apparent disregard to deal with the Truth! That he's may also been instrumental in getting Polish Pres, Ukarinian Pres, and Baltic Heads-of-State to come to Tbilisi to support Georgian Pres - after Georgia invaded & massacred some 2000 OS villagers and 000s of refugees.

[hari]

My reading of last 24h developments including Grobachev's intervention (Spiegel 20 Aug)- copied above by Anne - indicates that Russian forces will remain within OS zone to reinforce the ceasefire between Georgia-OS.

Ethnic cleansing has been going on, from both sides, as I can read Russian. It's also inconceivable that Georgia will ever become a member of Nato - as long as its Russian relations in Caucasus are not peacefully settled, according to German/French press.

Same will also apply to Ukraine - PM/Ukraine (lady) is now on Russian side and against Pres. of Ukraine and his ambition to join Nato.

[hari]

Recall what happened in former Yugoslavia when Bill Clinton (along with Blair) ordered military intervention to stop ethnic cleaning.... and later in Kososvo and its de jure recognition by US/EU and seperation from Serbia.

Local press is now declaring that Russia is paying back for Kosovo (forceful) separtion from Serbia.

[hari]

Reuters/Zoalby reports McCain has now taken 5pt lead against BO on Nov 4 election. This is reversal of trends, it claims, from last Thur-Sat polling.

[anne]

Interesting set of comments by Hari.

What has been happening is of special importance in highlighting America's intent at international power projection, which having gone wrong for some impossible to understand action by the President of Georgia, who could never have acted so were Georgia democratic, the severe limits on America's ability to project power become more evident.

Rather than either the Administration or the opposition trying to honestly explain what was happening in Georgia, and show an awareness of the need for a foreign policy that is not dictatorial but honest and fair, we chose to immediately side with an attacking Georgia. We made the conflict more difficult to resolve, but both George Bush and Barack Obama showed they are completely committed to projection of American military power internationally however self-defeating or distorting or ethically wrong the cause.

[anne]

Along with Mikhail Gorbachev, I watched the startling Georgian attack on Ossetia from the beginning and understood the meaning, the danger, the unprovoked destructiveness. I have since watched the distortion of what happened, in favor even of repeated Cold War and fascist analogies by supposedly moderate or Democratic foreign policy analysts. But, I have watched the same for weeks.

As the name Gorbachev was used to justify an attack on Russia, just as Gorbachev was explaining what really happened, when Obama condemned Hugo Chavez the name Greg Grandin was used to justify the condemnation even as Grandin was repudiating Obama's power projecting Latin America policy.

I watched European leaders gush over the words of Obama, thinking of finally gaining a war, the right sort of war, to be fought in Afghanistan, while the American opposition, the Democrats, were content to have the right sort of war to fight to project the same American power projection they grudgingly complain about over Iraq. Of course when you have the favor of Nicolas Sarkozy, what more could be wished?

[wjd123]

Hari,

As long as a nation has an ongoing territorial despute they can't join NATO.

To tell you the truth, I haven't read anything that is convincing about this dispute. But Russia does seem more interested in real politics than the rule of law. And then their is George Bush.

Did we bait the bear by practicing real politics or did we practice real politics of power because Russia was baiting us? Anyhow the rule of law has been mangled. And then their is George Bush.

[wjd123]

And then there is George Bush.

[anne]

What happened is simple, simple and tragic. Georgia began to shell Ossetia and shelled the territory for hours before sending tanks and troops in to occupy the territory. Georgia attacked Russian peace-keeping soldiers and Russian civilians and Georgian civilians along the Russian border with no justification.

Russia responded to protect Ossetians and Russians, and was able to do so remarkably quickly. Rather than recognize this, most of the American press, a portion of the European press, important American Republican and Democratic leaders and policy analysts, and several important European leaders, chose to distort what had happened, chose to resort to fearful analogies, and condemn and threaten Russia.

Simple and tragic, but accurate.

[hari]

wjd123 -

You're right - it's all a real mess right now.

What surprises me is how Bo is being pre-emptly narrowed in terms of policy choices into siding with McBush/Rice - either BOs advisors are not listening or watching the real stuff in Caucasus or picking it up from partisan sources.

Take NYT/Friedman's column today - the guy wants to be compared with Kennan & Co on postwar *containment policy*. This kind of puditry reflects a very narrow intellectual choice of ideas and nuance(s) in dealing with what's become an ethnic cleansing affair in the Caucasus now....

[anne]

Juan Cole refers to the discomfort at Fox News in interviewing a 12-year-old girl who thanks Russian troops for saving her from the Georgian attacks. * But, the instances of slanting the account have been startling to me. The press and analysts chose happily to become Fox.

* http://www.juancole.com/2008/08/fox-news-12-year-old-girl-tells-truth.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/opinion/20friedman.html?ref=opinion&pagewanted=print

August 20, 2008

What Did We Expect?
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

If the conflict in Georgia were an Olympic event, the gold medal for brutish stupidity would go to the Russian prime minister, Vladimir Putin....

[hari]

Anne - you must see NYT/Maud's diabolical column today!

[anne]

Hari:

"What surprises me is how BO is being pre-emptively narrowed in terms of policy choices into siding with McBush/Rice - either BO's advisers are not listening or watching the real stuff in Caucasus or picking it up from partisan sources."

I am more critical, but this is surely a fair surprise. I am more critical because watching international film, listening to international accounts at the beginning showed just what was happening. So at least recount the story correctly, and ask for an immediate end to Georgian violence and for Russian restraint.

[anne]

Hari refers us to:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/opinion/20dowd.html?ref=opinion&pagewanted=print

August 20, 2008

Two Against The One
By MAUREEN DOWD

WASHINGTON

In the dead of night in a small hideaway office in the deserted Capitol, a clandestine meeting takes place between two senators with one goal.

They grin at each other as they lift their celebratory shots of brutally cold Stolichnaya.

"Our toast to The One," they say in unison, "is that he's toast."

"Obama should have picked you, Hillary," John McCain tells her. "It isn't fair, my friend. But it just makes it easier for me to whup him."

"Don't worry, John, I've put it behind me," Hillary replies. "I'm looking toward the future now, a future that looks very bright, once we send Twig Legs back to the back bench."

They chortle with delight.

"He's a bright young man, but he got ahead of himself," McCain says. "He needs to be taught a lesson, and we're the ones to do it....

[This is not an isolated disgraceful column from this or other analysts in the same vein. Understanding is beyond me.]

[anne]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/opinion/20dowd.html?ref=opinion&pagewanted=print

August 20, 2008

Two Against The One
By MAUREEN DOWD

"They're all pinko Commies," McCain laughs. "Especially since they deserted me for The Messiah. Seriously, Hill, that Paris-Britney ad you came up with was brilliant. I owe you."

Looking pleased, Hillary expertly downs another shot. "His secret fear is being seen as a dumb blonde," she says. "He wants to take a short cut to the top and pose on glossy magazine covers, but he doesn't want to be seen as a glib pretty boy." ...

[What can we possibly say?]

[hari]

Anne - But why would she try to depict HRC as a *villain*?

There must be vicious and devious plan for such punditry....

[hari]

British Gov sent an Emissary to Pakistan to find (legal) ways and means to *save ex-Pres. Musharaaf* and give him one-way entry to Lond with (political) blessing of the democratically elected new Gov.

What happend is not only a shame for British sense of fair play. But down right from the book of spy thrillers....The new Gov was petioned by Human Rights Group in Pakistan who didn't want to see him travel out of Pakistan - until tried for his crimes and whatnots.

The British Emissary left Pak empty-handed and no Musharaaf.
He decided not to leave Pakistan - that's what he told the press.

Now, the two parties who formed the *united front* against ex-Pres are fighting each other for power - who will become Pres. Can they recall the ex-Supreme Court Chief back into office? One party says no. The other wants him reinstated.
So, it goes on after Musharaaf....

Taliban is alive and happy with demise of Musharaaf.

[Julio]

"President Mikheil Saakashvili of Georgia gave Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin an excuse to exercise his iron fist."

President Mikheil Saakashvili of Georgia gave American politicians an excuse to exercise their bellicose streak.

[wjd123]

Anne,

It certainly is tragic, but how can you be so sure it's so simple? Anyhow, at this point, I don't want to play Hamlet to your Richard III, I'll lose.

[anne]

WJD,

Hamlet is fine; the problem even if we are as wrong as Gorbachev is with our approach to diplomacy as opposed to our impossible wish for power projection. What was immediately perceived as Russia announced a response and responded to Georgia's attack was a threat to what our intent has been for so long, power projection.

That is why we so quickly responded by setting missiles in Poland. We are not after being diplomatic, we were not after protecting Ossetians, we felt threatened.

[hari]

Kuchner/FM/France chastized Rice for comparing current developments in the Caucasus with Prague 1968 - presumably inside the Nato Council - arguing like a good MD(!) we need to find cooperative ways to bring this ethnic conflict to a conclusion - not exacerbate it with b.s. and so on.

[anne]

http://shakespeare.mit.edu/Tragedy/hamlet/hamlet.2.2.html

1601

The Tragedy of Hamlet, Prince of Denmark
By William Shakespeare

Act II. Scene II.

Elinsore. A room in the castle.

HAMLET

My excellent good friends! How dost thou,
Guildenstern? Ah, Rosencrantz! Good lads, how do ye both?

ROSENCRANTZ

As the indifferent children of the earth.

GUILDENSTERN

Happy, in that we are not over-happy;
On fortune's cap we are not the very button.

HAMLET

Nor the soles of her shoe?

ROSENCRANTZ

Neither, my lord.

HAMLET

Then you live about her waist, or in the middle of
her favours?

GUILDENSTERN

'Faith, her privates we.

HAMLET

In the secret parts of fortune? O, most true; she
is a strumpet. What's the news?

ROSENCRANTZ

None, my lord, but that the world's grown honest.

HAMLET

Then is doomsday near: but your news is not true.
Let me question more in particular: what have you,
my good friends, deserved at the hands of fortune,
that she sends you to prison hither?

GUILDENSTERN

Prison, my lord!

HAMLET

Denmark's a prison.

ROSENCRANTZ

Then is the world one.

HAMLET

A goodly one; in which there are many confines,
wards and dungeons, Denmark being one o' the worst.

ROSENCRANTZ

We think not so, my lord.

HAMLET

Why, then, 'tis none to you; for there is nothing
either good or bad, but thinking makes it so: to me
it is a prison.

ROSENCRANTZ

Why then, your ambition makes it one; 'tis too
narrow for your mind.

HAMLET

O God, I could be bounded in a nut shell and count
myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I
have bad dreams.

GUILDENSTERN

Which dreams indeed are ambition, for the very
substance of the ambitious is merely the shadow of a dream.

HAMLET

A dream itself is but a shadow.

[hari]

Given Rice's Russian expertise during the Cold War period, I am surprised she has such a poor grasp of Russian culture and history - ie. what ticks Russia today?

[anne]

Hari is portraying France for playing a tempering role, and that would be important and pleasing since Britain and Germany have been disappointing. I have too little sense of the positions of the smaller EU-NATO members.

Who then are Shakespeare's important diplomats? I have to think, because diplomats slow plots and Shakespeare does not like slow plots.

[kthomas]

Hari, maybe we should face the music on Condi Rice: she's a fraud. I don't care how many people praise her intelligence or how many awards sycophants slap on her. She's an intelligent fraud.

Jagdish Bhagwati.....I'm getting a little tired of his pontificating. His main thrust is to call Americans selfish, every time he writes.

anne, one fo these days, I'd like to hear you be kind to your own country and countrymen. America produced you, not the other way around. (No, I don't like President Decider, or his Democrat enablers....but you offer few solutions, you just complain.) We need leadership from people like yourself, anne. We've got enough complainers, myself among them.

[wjd123]

From "Profit-maximization as the sole goal of a corporation":

Tenth, one of the most interesting questions over the next generation is whether the Anglo-American form of capitalism, which gives primary direction of companies to capital markets, will flourish and expand, or not. Some of the evidence on the (in)effectiveness of takeovers and the recent sad experiences in financial markets rather suggests not.

[hari]

kthomas - Thanks for your views on Rice.

I was just listening on German DLF (radio) a political discussion on Prague 1968 with Ex-FM Genscher/WGermany + Spidler/Ex-EU Commissioner/Checkoslovakia originating from Geothe Institute in Prague. They're both asked to summarize the lessons from Prague 1968 Spring and current developments in Caucasus.

There is no similarity between the two from a historical perspective, they both concluded with assurance. The Soviet Union ws a Super Power in the Cold War period with nuclear deterrance.

However the current developments in Caucasus is a problem of nationalism and how to resolve ethnic issues from exploding into hot conflicts. They both agreed that without existence of EU-27, a ceasefire couldn't been agreed upon.

[anne]

The difference is profound, the difference is an imperial Russia in 1968, responding to a rebellion in the empire, and a Russia in 2008 that is not imperial but is being ever more closely ringed by countries militarily allied with an imperial America, a Russia in 2008 that responded to an unprovoked attack on Russian soldiers and Russian and Ossetian citizens along the border of the country.

Where is the slightest similarity beyond an ideological wish to find the similarity, as to even find a similarity with fascist imperial expansion in the 1930s?

How did we respond to a Russian defense in 2008? By setting missiles in Poland.

[anne]

The consensus now is that there is an America right to empire. I hold, "no."

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/8/20/the_limits_of_power_andrew_bacevich

August 20, 2008

The Limits of Power: Andrew Bacevich on the End of American Exceptionalism
By Amy Goodman

ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, I mean, you identified me as a conservative, and I don't deny that label, but I think in this particular context what conservatism means is to be realistic in understanding how the world works and being respectful of history and taking care not to overstate one's own capacity to influence events.

And I think, in that regard, if we look at Afghanistan today, we have to see a country that historically, at least as I understand Afghan history, has never really functioned as an integrated and coherent nation state. It's never been ruled from Kabul. It's always been ruled from the—in the provinces by people you might call tribal chiefs. You might call them warlords, you can call them local bosses, but authority has been widely distributed. But we are engaged in a project in which we insist that we're going to transform Afghanistan into something more or less like a modern, coherent nation state, and indeed, we insist that it has to conform to our notions of liberal democracy.

Were we able to actually do that, I think it would be a wonderful thing. But seven years or so into this project, I'm not sure we can do it. Matter of fact, I'm increasingly persuaded that we can't do it, and therefore—and I think in your news summary you made reference to this—you know, for somebody like Senator Obama to say, "Elect me. I'll win the global war on terror by sending more troops to Afghanistan," I think ought to give people pause and, frankly, ought to cause them to wonder how much change an Obama administration would make with regard to a foreign policy. That's not an argument for voting for McCain, by a long shot, but it suggests the narrowness of the debate over foreign policy.

AMY GOODMAN: So how is this narrowness taking place?

[anne]

Andrew Bacevich is professor of international relations at Boston University, and is making a distressingly non-political argument. The argument is non-political because of the Democratic-Republican agreement on the right of exceptional America to decide the ways in which any other people are to live, inventing threats to us as needed as excuse to do so.

[hari]

Look if you visisted Afghanistan before the Taliban and Soviet incursion, and the rest, you'd know the great cultural tradition of the Hindu Kush people - people who have always been ruled/led by their tribal leaders - principally because they're of different ethnic orgins. The south is closer to Persian culture and also speaks Afghani-parsi. The north is more like the Caucasus, if I may say so, with its bounty of food and culture and whatnot.

Anyone who can make it whole - as a democratic state - will have to consider its existing *federalistic* peculiarities based on ethnic and other differences of the tribes.

And, if you consider it a little bit, it's like the dilemma in Iraq with its tribal heritage and customs and whatnot.

[hari]

Liberman in Tiblisi is talking about supplying anti-missile and anti-tank weapons to Shaak's Army.

As indicated earlier, Russian forces are moving into the enclave of OS and establishing a cordon sanitaire against Georgian forces. By Fri I suppose rest of Russian forces will finally evacuate from Georgin territory and return to Russian soil.

The conflict is now so leveraged that neither US/EU have any option - but armed conflict - to counter Russian strategic moves to isolate Georgia.

[Julio]

Unlike some in this thread, I saw the invasion of Afghanistan as different than most of our imperial adventures. There was a group in power, the Taliban, which sheltered an armed group, bin Laden's Al Qaeda, that had attacked the US and continued to train in their territory.

So there was justification for the use of force to topple that government, and many nations (of all stripes) seemed to agree.

To go on beyond that to restructure Afghanistan as a wannabe Western enclave seems stupid, and ignores the lessons of history. Even countries with more ethnic and cultural cohesion than Afghanistan moved with difficulty, or not at all, beyond loose confederations of provincial governments.

To take this tack today, when desire for government based on regional and ethnic fragmentation is the rule (Kosovo, all of Yugoslavia, Checks and Slovaks, Ossetians, Chechnyans, the list is endless) seems particularly arrogant or stupid.

The Taliban, in addition, are not four thugs with guns. They obviously have a lot of popular support, and represent the legitimate aspirations of a significant population, however distasteful those aspirations may be to us. Any peaceful settlement in Afghanistan (and northwestern Pakistan) will have to take account of those aspirations.

[anne]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/21/world/europe/21prexy.html?hp&pagewanted=print

August 21, 2008

Bush Calls Georgia ‘Under Siege’
By CHARLIE SAVAGE

ORLANDO, Fla. — President Bush declared Wednesday that “Georgia’s young democracy” has “come under siege” by Russia, and he connected the conflict in the Caucuses with the battle against terrorists and United States efforts to aid the rise of free societies....

[Carefully notice the language.]

[anne]

Julio:

"Unlike some in this thread, I saw the invasion of Afghanistan as different than most of our imperial adventures. There was a group in power, the Taliban, which sheltered an armed group, bin Laden's Al Qaeda, that had attacked the US and continued to train in their territory.

"So there was justification for the use of force to topple that government, and many nations (of all stripes) seemed to agree.

"To go on beyond that to restructure Afghanistan as a wannabe Western enclave seems stupid, and ignores the lessons of history...."

[Nicely described and the government was quickly toppled, which is what Bacevich is arguing, but we have been determined to invent our own Afghanistan, while every battle there is only a reason to battle on the more so.]